ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Ground Rods: Installation and Hook-Up
by renosteinke - 11/26/22 07:28 PM
Happy Thanksgiving all!
by Bill Addiss - 11/24/22 08:37 AM
Colt Firearms Switchbox
by sabrown - 11/22/22 01:33 PM
Perfect work light?
by gfretwell - 11/22/22 12:48 AM
copper prices where you live and inflation
by gfretwell - 11/21/22 01:52 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 38 guests, and 50 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10
C
Member
Best thing to do if possible is call the Engineer or Architect and discuss the plans. I know this takes time, but you def have to bis on what the other contractor is going to bid on. (compare apples to apples)
If you are going to be doing work w/this GC in the future and build a relationship you need to communicate with the parties involved. If that is unsuccessful I would walk away, I don't need the grief which comes with inadequate prints and lack of communication. A customer in my experience who is building, or having a building built for there business or whatever, is normaly interested in your input, recommendations and knowledge, which may also help you to land that job and a knew customer for life.
Good communication is key to a successful business. Sorry for the long windedness!

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Member
To throw in a little twist.....

Comm?Ind requires sealed/signed prints in NJ for plan review & permit approvals. A permit application must be submitted by the EC with the plans. Presume the EC "bid" and won the job "per prints".

Now, the AHJ red lines some items at Plan Review......presume $ 8.5K of red line items to meet NEC Plan Review.

What scenario's are there for the "bidding" EC??

QUESTION.....DO YOU "REVIEW"??????

John


John
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Member
I also have to add that this comment...

This subject seems to add fuel to the fire that is being created by the "quality" of electrical plans being submitted for bid, and plan review/permit approvals.

Based on some of the "quality" paper I see, it must be a real circuis in areas that have no permit/plan review processes in place.

John


John
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
I have a plan that I am dealing with right now. The bids have already been awarded, but the plans have not been approved yet.....partly because the EE is about 80 amps light on his computed load. I plan on talking with him tommorrow about this, but what about the electrician that already bid this?


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Member
Ryan:
Darwin Award winner:
1600 amp feeder......connected load 1175 amps, 90% lighting; continuous duty??? OH YES...

Plans say 600KCMil, 4 sets.

EC installs 500's....mis-read the 'little numbers'......

Bummer.......700' run....Dept Store...

John


John
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 201
A
Member
Not meaning any disrespect but how did you miss $8.5k of code inepts in the first place? That I could see, knowing Jersey, but do you not have a disclaimer in your contract? If the Eng/arch who is suppose to know, misses things or, doesnt do a thorough job he needs to deal with it. I have had that problem in Phila. Eng/Arch/builder need to deal with it. Unless you of course are the eng/Arch

[This message has been edited by ayrton (edited 03-25-2004).]

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
John: MAJOR OUCH!!!!

Its funny how complacent you can become. I mean, you install 500's for every 400 amp service you do, and you install (2) 500's for every 800 amp service you do...it would be easy to just pull (4) for 1600. Someone just lost their *** on that job :0


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
N
Member
Mistakes like the one mentioned are exactly why ALL of my proposals have a statement that says "Errors and omissions in design by others are not (company name) responsibility. All changes to,or additions reqquired by others ( i.e. inspectors) or to meet code are not included in this proposal."
If the architect or engineer put out a poor drawing, let them pay for the mistakes. After all that is one reason they carry errors and omission insurance.


ed
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,722
Broom Pusher and
Member
If things are obviously Non-Compliant on a Bid Set, then the Architect / Engineer gets an RFI from me (or several depending on what's needed).

Normally the RFI will be sent out by others, or at least be worthy enough to get some faxes sent out to describe the situation.

If nothing is done regarding the RFI, then proposal goes out with the typical giant disclaimer of "Bid Per Planset Dated XX / XX/ XXXX - all revisions are extra... blah blah blah"
If things are not too pressing, the proposal may contain two parts - one part "Per Planset with the obvious Non-Compliant stuff" , then another part with "What should be compliant"

Being that so many of our jobs come from a well known G.C., the problems of getting screwed is rather slim.
When dealing with a new G.C., the wording of the proposal needs to describe what's being priced with no shadow of doubt - and then some!!!

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Member
Ayrton:
No disrespect taken.
The scenario I wrote did not happen to me as an EC, I did the submitted plan review as AHJ on the permit app based on plans submitted with the permit app.

My point was that this EC "bid" and won the job based on the plans. Turned out that the second 'bidder' came in with a Change of Contractor App, and a corrected set of plans with a net job cost increase of $8k.

BTW, the Darwin Award winner had a solution that was not all that $$$$$$$.....replace the feeder fuses with 1500 amp, and get a acceptance letter from ethe client's PE/Arch.

John


John
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
dougwells
dougwells
kamloops BC Canada
Posts: 1,158
Joined: May 2003
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 3
NORCAL 3
Popular Topics(Views)
300,230 Are you busy
229,955 Re: Forum
214,778 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5