ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
GFCI's pops in large numbers
by dsk - 09/26/22 04:35 AM
AFCI’s Revisited
by sparky - 09/24/22 09:58 AM
NFPA Price Increase Coming
by Bill Addiss - 09/23/22 02:22 PM
Siemens breakers
by gfretwell - 09/23/22 01:45 PM
What do you look like?II
by HotLine1 - 09/22/22 12:33 PM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 38 guests, and 11 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#33734 01/27/04 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2
D
Dublin1 Offline OP
Junior Member
I have a residential customer with a 400 amp service that has a 43KW backup natural gas powered generator installed at his home. this generator is housed in a detached garage which also houses, a pair of riding lawnmowers, 4 four wheelers, 4 snowmobiles, and the biggest longest motorhome I've ever seen, as well as numerous gas containers, kerosine containers, and kerosine space heaters. Over the last few years he has also added to the detached garage another 1900 sq feet which includes a living space, bathroom, gameroom and attic storage. This addition has its own 200 amp service. Now for the questions, what code problems are we looking at in this application, what safety concerns, what about the possible negative pressure effects, not to mention no panel labling to indicate more than one service supply to this building. Also the owner would like to add several circuits from the detached garage addition to the generator via another tranfer switch. Can this be legally done? Thats about it for now, what do you think??

| )ubli|


| )ubli| |
#33735 01/27/04 06:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
Two separate service sources to the same generator, from different buildings?

Two separate services feeding the same building? 230.2 - I do not see how A through D applies here.

I would not be comfortable with this project, I am not sure, as I cannot see this job, but something sounds 'fishy'.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#33736 01/27/04 10:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
R
Member
I don't see the code violation/s. Somebody must have allready allowed the second service to the detached garage. I don't see any problem feeding parts of the two diffrent services with one generator.
As for the fuel storage, That's could be a problem. I just don't know if it's a NEC problem.

PS I think they (THE SERVICE MAINS) should be labeled, if there are circuits from both services in the same building

[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 01-27-2004).]

#33737 01/27/04 10:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19
D
Member
Yes it would in fact be two separate service sources to the same generator from 2 separate buildings. The main house with a 400 amp service is about 200 feet from the detached garage. The original detached garage was supplied power from the house via a 100 amp sub-panel, this garage houses the 43KW generator and supplies emergency backup power to the residence and detached garage. Now the owner had an addition attached to the detached garage, this addition exceeded the capacity of the 400 amp service on the house so it could not be supplied power from the original sub-panel in the detached garage. Following so far?? This is an 18,000 sq ft single family residence, dad,mom,and 2 sons.
As to the second question of 2 separate services feeding the same building... technically yes. The original detached garage supplied from a sub-panel powered by the house panel, and the addition to the detached garage powered by a new 200 amp service.
230.2 C 2 and 230.2 C 3 were originally offered as suffient cause by the local authority according to the owners documentation.
The main reason for the contact with the owner was the lack of a generator maintenance program. The usage of the garage housing the generator is what has opened this can of worms.


| )ubli| |
#33738 01/27/04 11:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
R
Member
Again the generator inside is not unusual as long as it is exhausted properly. If it's a fuel storage problem, it time to move the fuel.

#33739 01/30/04 07:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,722
Broom Pusher and
Member
43KW for a House?! Dang!!! [Linked Image]

I worked on a Go-Generation project, where two 60KW Generators with Gas-Turbine Prime Movers (using the Utility type Natural Gas), were used. This was within a 4 floor Commercial Office Building, and load calcs showed this 120KW would be ample for normal usage, plus some overhead to be sold off to the PoCo.

Just wanted to say a few things...

Scott35.

P.S.: The setup also used an evaporative chiller, which took the "wasted" heat energy and applied it to heating the Building's Water - in conjunction with a Storage type Water Heater.
Great idea on the reuse of as much energy possible!


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
CharlieE
CharlieE
Indianapolis
Posts: 201
Joined: April 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 3
Popular Topics(Views)
297,396 Are you busy
228,255 Re: Forum
213,158 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5