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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
sparky Offline OP
From the IAEI page;{}

The primary concern of the IAEI is consumers' safety. Knowing that mishandled electricity can become extremely dangerous, perhaps even fatal, IAEI and its members are committed to improving design, installation, inspection, and usage of energy.

From the NFPA’s page; {}

NFPA has established regional offices to promote the adoption of NFPA codes and standards by state and local authorities, assure appropriate representation at code hearings and legislative sessions, coordinate activities with NFPA staff and key constituencies, and identify ways NFPA services can improve fire, building, and life safety in their regions.

I truly believe the people that began these organizations had the public’s safety in mind , and probably ran with that ball to their , and ultimately our trades , benefit.

Yet i’m willing to bet those pioneers wouldn’t like the smell of the cash cow that permeates them now , along with the current residents unwilling to rock the boat for that original cause, but who in a cushy position is really going to do that?…. and who is really pushing them to ?

much of what the NEC appears to be amounting to is nothing more than dwelling on frivolous minutia geared to evolving into something soon needing optional wheels, while it’s enforcement, and education, does not proportionally follow suit.

This in itself becomes a great recipe for alienation because in reality we’d probably be safer to have the ’54 NEC 90% enforced , than have the ’02 10% enforced

Small towns consistently turn down the creation of ordinances they can’t enforce, yet the feds continue to pump out unfunded mandates , anyone with the brains God gave geese can vouch that these only serve to justify the existence of a self involved oligarchy, who’s efficy in the trenches amounts to little more than a paper tiger

Volunteerism, as well as small biz is dying on the vine here via this phenomenon

Too much government is just as bad as too little, or that which administered so inequitable by merely crossing state borders , looses all recognition or validity. A level playing field becomes an bona fide issue when what is a criminal offense in one locale’ is passé a mile away…

violation after repetitive violation are posted here, as well as other trade forums, and the colorful quips that follow serve as testimony to this

I hear there’s a national shortage of sparky’s, and I wonder if the kids whom are counseled now realize the greater % of what they do as a tradesman may never achieve compliance in an unstable field raft with opportunists of every stripe, so in all sincerity I gotta ask, who’s the fool?

It our trade folks, and if your not pissed off, your either too cozy in your little corner of it wearin’ your NEC colored glasses, or just not paying attention to the bigger pix here, divided as we are now we’ll eventually fall…

Grass root support inspired these organizations , and Grass root can restructure them, , voice your discontent ,question authority, most importantly follow the money , and you’ll be your brothers keeper, many hands are going to be the only salvation for our trades future...

Peace out…~S~

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
WOW, who'da expected a tirade from YOU?? [Linked Image]

As you know, I think you are about 300% correct. I do think you've made one slight mistake.... I happen to agree with our founding fathers that too much gummint is ALWAYS a bad thing.

We have tons more regulators and agencies than anyone ever envisioned, imagined, or wanted.... so naturally, our trade is MUCH safer than ever. If you believe that, I've got some property in Brooklyn I'll sell ya cheap.

I remember the IBEW selling the much smaller version of the code books for $1.00. We all knew and understood them a good bit better then, and self regulation worked a lot better.

I recently told Joe Carpenter that $80.00 was way too much to pay for 6 magazines a year. After nearly 20 years of membership, that was about all I ever got from them (at the IAEI). I have never once gotten them to issue an opinion that I requested. Been to their website lately? I haven't but last visit it was a dead and dying place. How come ya reckon?

NFPA is just about as bad, and let's face it, that ain't no cheap seat either.

As an example, you guys know I left the Pentagon and took a job as maintenance coordinator with a local school system. No problems related to our guys work for the 60 years of existence, some sloppy stuff, but basically sound work - some of the stuff we get from contractors is a different matter though.

Anyway, we install an outlet, nobody inspected it for many years, then the county took over and decided we had to have a permit and inspection on all that hoo-rah. Understand the county wants plans, panel legends, load calcs (for the entire school) for installing an outlet for a teacher to plug in her overhead projector. How many people had to be hired, by us AND the county, to cover the additional work?

Now, you are an inspector, you've got a work ticket to inspect an outlet in a 400,000 sq. foot school, full of kids. You're gonna take a ladder through that crowd, have the school empty the classroom so you can safely remove ceiling tiles to properly perform you're inspection. SURE you are.

Now history goes back a long way with this. The most common rejection is that one of my guys had no MC straps, so he took a 1/2" EMT strap and squeezed it around the cable... GOOD LORD, evacuate the school before all these children DIE!!!!

Point is WHEN they are actually inspected NO real violation is found. This also applies for adding a light in the kitchens, switches, changing a compressor, etc..

NOPE, no one will ever convince me that too much gummint is a good thing. It's all about MONEY, honey. Some Director has seen a way to increase his staff, and therefore justify his pay scale, it helps nothing, just adds confusion to the bottom line.

WHAT the heck am I doing here, this was your soapbox!!!!

Have a Happy New Year, Steve.....


Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 524
..Good points, guys,..I agree, and as George said..
It's all about MONEY, honey.

.."if it ain't fixed,don't break a Licensed Electrician"
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 197
Man..... I am glad I live in the boonie's, no this, no that, and no red tape!

Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,287
I take "violation" pictures on a nearly daily basis. Most of the work has been inspected, and passed.
We have, I think, more regulations, and less competent inspectors, than anyplace else.
Many seem to be nothing more than Tax Collectors, very hot on permit fees, very cool on inspecting.
Re: Volunteerism
Steve, I know you've put lots of time and effort into this, and other Forums. I believe that you're one of the most dedicated of the "cause".
I hate to see you so sour.
Somebody has to carry the ball. I know damn well you're not gonna stop. You can't, perserverance is in you...S

Now I'll go shoot myself in the foot again by putting up pictures of my customer's messes. If they saw them, I'd probably be looking for a job.
BTW, I really don't think I'll be upping my IAEI membership this time.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
"Many seem to be nothing more than Tax Collectors, very hot on permit fees, very cool on inspecting."


Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
I agree with you steve and george
One thing I have seen too many times is that when you call an AHJ,s attention to a problem involving unlicensed and/or non permited work, all the inspector does is collect the permit fee and and a late application fee then approve the work, even when it was done incorrectly. I have quite trying to call these actions to AHJ,s. Nothing effective gets done, and the fly by niter gets another almost free walk. The fees are not even enough to make the illegal cost more than if it was done correctly and legally. [Linked Image]

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 2
Yeah man!,
I agree with you Sparky and George.
One of my pet peeves over here is not with our Inspectors(who all are practising Electricians and know how things are!)
It's with the Government-operated so-called "Safety Authorities" who focus more on self-preservation than any interest in the safety of the general public, who they are paid (rather handsomly, I might add!) to protect, but they are going about it all the wrong way.
You can be fined for the stupidest things over here, and as for the Certificate of Compliance scheme here, don't get me started on that shambles!.
You guys aren't alone in your disdain for the controlling authorities.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
sparky Offline OP
Thank you for entertianing my thoughts here guys. I felt that , having admitedly sniped a few threads with negativity i should make my position clear.

I'm really tired of loosing business, and my mates in ems, to this system we have...

i respect authority when it works in our best behalf, and reserve the right to call it out when it does not.

the IAEI has a nifty little questionaire for those whom leave the flock, which despite pouring my heart out, will promptly meet the shreader .

Somebody has to carry the ball. I know damn well you're not gonna stop. You can't, perserverance is in you...S
heh~ you are either a good judge of virtual character, or realize the mule was modeled after Vermonters Scott ...

ok, i've bemoaned the problem ad naseum, inasmuch as i belive pointing out the problem is a start, it is only fair to ask here for any viable solution that could be applicable


Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 2
Here's one idea.
Clean house in the halls of power and get representatives voted in by the people that are going to be judged by them.
Most of the people that we have here are just glorified office workers and don't know a diode from a power pole.
It makes me sick!. [Linked Image]

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