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#32248 12/19/03 03:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2
I
Junior Member
I am new to this site and I have a question. Could anyone tell me if a panel located previously in the garage that is now part of the kitchen due to a remodel must be moved. The panel that was in the garage is now part of the kitchen as a result of a wall being moved to expand the kitchen. I cannot find an article specifically addressing this issue. The panel is more than 6 ft. from the sink and being enclosed by a soon to be broom closet that the homeowners wife must have. HELP


Michael J. Bradford
#32249 12/19/03 04:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 333
S
Member
Welcome -
Things were good until you mentioned the closet. Look at 110-26(dedicated equipment space/working space) and possibly 240-24(d)(not in vicinity of easily ignitible material).

steve


Steve
#32250 12/19/03 06:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
I am with Stamcom, nothing wrong with a panel being in the kitchen. [Linked Image] It could be near the sink it can not be over a counter due to work space rules.

The closet could be a problem, I would mostly be worried about the work space rules.

The closet (and the closet door if the depth of the closet is less than 36") will need to be 30" wide minimum 110.26(A)(2)

The height inside the closet will need to be 6.5 feet minimum. 110.26(E)

The depth of the working space has to be 36".

Here is the real kicker, all that space described above is not to be used for storage.

Quote
110.26(B) Clear Spaces. Working space required by this section shall not be used for storage.


There are more requirements in 110.26 and they would be worth taking a look at.

And there is always 240-24(d) the ignitable material issue which seems to be only applied in clothes closets but it depends on the AHJ.

Bottom line is I doubt you can put a broom closet around this panel unless it is a very large broom closet.




[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-19-2003).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#32251 12/19/03 07:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
To put it another way, if you could not slid an average to large size refrigerator up to the front of the panel with out moving stuff or ripping out walls you have a violation. [Linked Image]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#32252 12/19/03 08:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
found one panel {by follloing the service wire} behind a refer last week.

i know the letter of the codse here, yet i must state that most us 'lectricians do not move/place refers

this continues to be a code 'violated' by non tradesmen here, so where do we draw the line when it comes to responsibility for it?

do AHJ's write up cabinet makers or appliance men?

if so, i truely lead a sheltered life....

~S~

#32253 12/20/03 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Sparky here the inspector will not pass the job if there are NEC violations.

The inspector is not concerned with which trade caused the violations of the NEC or which trade will fix it.

I tell the GC we did not pass because of X and the GC will have to figure a cure.

Hopefully this Broom closet installation will not be like this.

[Linked Image from nachi.org]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#32254 12/20/03 11:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
G
Member
It's not at all unusual here to see installations like in Bob's picture.

My question would be,In the case of a remodel that results in something like this,and maybe the original electrician had nothing to do with it,who takes the heat on a liability issue?

Russell

#32255 12/21/03 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2
I
Junior Member
I want to thank all you guys for the feedback. I will speak to the home owner about the closet issue. It was gonna be large enough to comply with the working space requirement.I said it was gonna be a broom closet, but they were gonna use it for shelving to also store food. Thank you iwire for the reference to 110.26(B) that answered the question. again thanx to all.


Michael J. Bradford
#32256 12/21/03 08:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
sssweeeet Bob [Linked Image]

i actually work for a GC whom has his main panel in his kitchen cabinet very similar to the pix you've posted.

the way i figure it, the 'lectrican was there first, same as those refer disco's.

i have my say as to workin clearances, but that's about as far as i (or anyone here) can really run with that ball..

~S~

#32257 12/21/03 08:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,035
Likes: 1
Member
Nice Picture Bob!

Here's another from our Photo Discussion area:

[Linked Image]

more at: https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000167.html

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
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