ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
New tool
by gfretwell - 10/24/20 11:09 AM
Where is Everyone?
by Bill Addiss - 10/17/20 07:04 PM
Beyond Belief
by gfretwell - 09/27/20 12:03 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 20 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
PVC underground #29892 09/27/03 03:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
I'm doing a job and have to run PVC underground which should be 18" deep, and metal ridgid with pipe wrap at the ends where it comes out of the ground. I have seen jobs where the PVC was run up from the underground to above ground level which should be against code, even though the PVC is marked schedule 40 ridgid. I don't believe this is legal. Correct?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: PVC underground #29893 09/27/03 08:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline
Member
aldav53
i know of no code ref here , other than that of 'physical damage' that would dictate steel on UG surfacing.

even then, sch 80 goes a long way....

fwiw, there would be more of a focus on the grounding of an isolated sweep, either in burial depth or bonding to it.

there would also be some technicalities feeders/branch circuits vs. service entrance

so you'll need to expand a tad for us

~S~

Re: PVC underground #29894 09/27/03 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
They will be branch circuits from a 200a subpanel feeding a Spa, barbecue, waterfall, etc.
(Using Schedule 40)


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
Re: PVC underground #29895 09/27/03 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
It is perfectly code compliant to break the surface with PVC and there are many installations in this area that do just that.

Underground Dwelling services are often done that way.

For myself I prefer to use IMC or RMC to come up out of the ground.

An isolated elbow must have all parts of it 18" below earth or be encased in 2" of concrete. 250.86 Exception No. 3

Now if only the POCO would bond their rigid pole risers we would be doing something

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 09-27-2003).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: PVC underground #29896 09/27/03 08:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
DougW Offline
Member
[brokenrecord] Check with your AHJ [/brokenrecord]

It's illegal in my community to have PVC as the "groundbreaker" - it MUST be RMC/IMC to min burial depth for the raceway or cable.

Re: PVC underground #29897 09/28/03 11:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
E
Electric Eagle Offline
Member
This is what the NEC handbook has to say.

Quote
Rigid Nonmetallic Schedule 40 and Schedule 80 PVC Conduit (DZYR)
Rigid nonmetallic Schedule 40 PVC conduit is suitable for underground use by direct burial or encasement in concrete. Unless marked “Underground Use Only” or equivalent wording, Schedule 40 conduit is also suitable for above ground use indoors or outdoors exposed to sunlight and weather where not subject to physical damage.
Schedule 80 conduit has a reduced cross-sectional area available for wiring space and is suitable for use wherever Schedule 40 conduit may be used. The marking “Schedule 80” identifies the conduit as suitable for use where exposed to physical damage and for installations on poles to comply with Section 352.10(F) and 352.12(C).

I've never seen any underground service done with any material other than PVC. And as long as its schedule 80, it should pass anywhere.

Re: PVC underground #29898 09/28/03 11:45 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 132
E
elektrikguy Offline
Member
Agree with all above posters. Also it should state right on the PVC conduit its schedule and its limitations for usage if doubt arises during installation. The subject of physical damage needs to be taken into consideration. For services where vehicular traffic is present concrete bollards will alleviate this problem.

Re: PVC underground #29899 09/29/03 12:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
The part in the code where it says PVC can be run above ground if "not subject to physical damage" can possibly be a gray area, but tells me it cannot be run up out of the ground, should be ridgid I believe with 20ml pipe wrap.


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
Re: PVC underground #29900 09/30/03 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 173
S
Speedy Petey Offline
Member
"but tells me it cannot be run up out of the ground"
That is a very bold assumption. It can also be a costly one, for you.

PVC is very regularly run above ground. The subject to physical damage is just that. A service riser going up a utility pole along a roadway is subject to physical damage, we use galv. The other end of the same pipe going into the meter pan on the side of someone's house surrounded by shrubs and grass IMO is not "subject to physical damage" any more than sch 80 can ahndle.


Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
Re: PVC underground #29901 10/01/03 04:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
iwire Offline
Moderator
aldav53

Running PVC up out of the ground is very common.

The subject to physical damaged part is a judgment call between you and the inspector.

Take a look at 334.15(B) and you will see PVC listed as a means to protect NM and UF (334.10(4) conductors from physical damage.

If you do not like to break the surface with PVC do not do it, I do not, but it is in most cases code compliant.


Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
CharlieE
CharlieE
Indianapolis
Posts: 201
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
270,784 Are you busy
204,997 Re: Forum
193,113 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3