ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

>> Home   >> Electrical-Photos   >> Classifieds   >> Subscribe to Newsletter   >> Store  
 

Photo of the Week:

Mouse on a Bus
Mouse on a Bus

Advertisement:-Left
Recent Gallery Topics:
What in Tarnation?
What in Tarnation?
by timmp, September 10
Plumber meets Electrician
Plumber meets Electrician
by timmp, September 10
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 126 guests, and 30 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,155
Likes: 4
Member
When LED Bulb packaging says NOT FOR USE IN TOTALLY ENCLOSED FIXTURES is this stating a Safety issue or that it may affect the Lifespan of the Bulb itself?


Bill
Horizontal Ad
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 369
M
Member
As I understand the warning, it is something to do with the LED driver overheating and shortens the bulb life.

There are apparently bulbs available for totally enclosed fixtures but you have to search for them. Most if not all of the budget bulbs are not suitable for enclosed fixtures.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,155
Likes: 4
Member
I've only noticed it on bulbs over 60W equivalent. Some of the opinions out there are that it is a Fire Hazard. Has anyone seen any Manufacturer's info regarding this?


Bill
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,155
Likes: 4
Member
Originally Posted by Bill Addiss
I've only noticed it on bulbs over 60W equivalent. Some of the opinions out there are that it is a Fire Hazard. Has anyone seen any Manufacturer's info regarding this?

Or Safety Incident Reports?


Bill
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,007
Likes: 37
G
Member
I doubt a LED would start a fire that got out of a U/L listed enclosure. It can get hot and fail prematurely.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,412
Likes: 7
Member
Any thoughts on the base orientation; base down, base up, etc?? I think base down reduces the heat buildup at the driver.

I had an LED failure in the enclosed fixtures on my rear deck, 17+ months (about 5k hrs). On dusk-dawn) not 'out' but dim. Bases were discolored (heat), so I think that's the issue.

A while back, I noticed this warning on the packaging, and returned the unused bulbs. Picked thru a lot of different brands & wattage equivalents, and found one (60 W Eq) that did NOT have the warning. OK, cost a few bucks more for the two-pack.

They are in for about 18 months, no issues. I have an enclosed fixture at the front entry, with a 'big box' LED that's about 2 years old; on dusk-dawn.


John
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,155
Likes: 4
Member
Originally I thought the warning was only on Bulbs over 60w equivalent, now I see it is even on the some of the no frills 60s. GE has several product lines, some with warnings and some without.

After looking for info on the subject it seems that even partially open fixtures that block free airflow in any way can affect the life of some Bulbs. rolleyes


Bill
Horizontal Ad
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
T
Member
Originally Posted by Bill Addiss
When LED Bulb packaging says NOT FOR USE IN TOTALLY ENCLOSED FIXTURES is this stating a Safety issue or that it may affect the Lifespan of the Bulb itself?

I believe that is a copy over from the CFL days and UL 1993 " Self-Ballasted Lamps and Lamp
Adapters" which they borrowed from when they made the standards for LED lamps. the standards have evolved over the years.
My understanding is at UL they require a sample of the bulb to be tested in many different fixtures with their respective lens's, if a fixture can have more than one style it can be very expensive to have each bulb tested in each lens style UL has for a standard A19 size.
So manufacturers opt to test the bulb in a A19 fixture with no lens
and UL stipulates "There shall be a marking to indicate "Not for use in totally enclosed recessed fixtures," unless the device is tested with the lens "

Last edited by tortuga; 02/04/25 09:09 PM.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,155
Likes: 4
Member
Why couldn't they just say "Not Tested for use in Totally Enclosed Fixtures" or similar?


Bill
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 14
T
Member
Originally Posted by Bill Addiss
Why couldn't they just say "Not Tested for use in Totally Enclosed Fixtures" or similar?
I have no idea, what UL is thinking, that warning in my opinion leads to a lot of confusion and is probably meaningless.
I think as long as the input watts of a LED lamp are equal to or less than the watts on the enclosed fixture its a non issue.

We're used to seeing lamps (aka bulbs) for sale in North America typically have a mark from a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL) indicating compliance with the safety regulations outlined in a standard.
While we have always accepted UL standards such as UL 1993 and UL 8750 for LED lamps (that require that testing) I am not aware of any law stating the UL standards *must* be used, there probably is one I just don't know where it is.

The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) develops standards that are used everywhere else and here, and they have standard 62560 specific to LED lighting.
IEC 62560 appears to be very similar to UL 1993 and UL 8750 as they both detail mandatory markings, construction safeguards, minimum resistance to hazard sources and operation under fault conditions.

According to the IEC 62560 mandatory markings include a mark of origin such as a trademark or manufacturer/distributor name, rated voltage or voltage range, rated wattage and rated frequency. LED lights not suitable for dimmer circuits are required to indicate this clearly in installation instructions or package labeling, however I don't think it has that verbiage about enclosed fixtures I could be wrong as I have not read both.
At one time the voltage a bulb ran at was very important and so a North American (UL) Standard was necessary, but in 2025 its questionable if we even need UL 8750 if the same thing is covered in IEC 62560

https://webstore.iec.ch/en/publication/7259
http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/LED-standards.html

Last edited by tortuga; 02/06/25 12:22 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Advertisement:-Right


Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC + Exam Prep Study Guides Now Available!
 

Member Spotlight
SafetyWired
SafetyWired
Pa, USA
Posts: 44
Joined: July 2013
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
340,304 Are you busy
265,696 Re: Forum
246,702 Need opinion
New Page 2
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5