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What in Tarnation?
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by timmp, September 10
Plumber meets Electrician
Plumber meets Electrician
by timmp, September 10
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,474
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
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The 2023 NEC gathers all definitions together in one place. Prior editions often had definitions placed in the most relevant sections of the code.
In this edition they have elaborated on what is meant by “accessible” as regards wiring methods. Specifically, junction boxes (and the like) cannot be “blocked” by other electrical equipment or building systems.

It seems to me this is a shot at later trades and remodelers, who seem to have no issues whatsoever placing their stuff over, in front of, or atop junction boxes and the like. Who among us has not spent hours running down a problem, only to find a box buried in the wall?

Not to write a book here, but I have seen the following:
— Junction boxes in commercial buildings (mounted to the building walls) become completely inaccessible when an interior office is built inside the main building shell. In one instance, the buried box was the one necessary to service or even shut-off a space heater;
— A building expansion where the extension of the building foundation slab buried an LB supplying the sign for the business. Good luck servicing that circuit;
— Junction boxes supplying parking lot lights buried in the ground and then paved over;
— Massive production equipment being placed directly in front of massive exhaust fans, precluding even expected routine maintenance of those fans;
— Plumbing drain lines, etc., being placed directly in the service access openings (good luck crawling in!); and,
— Building services and air conditioning equipment made inaccessible by planted shrubbery.

Less obvious is when an electrical contractor (!!!) installs the breaker panel directly over a massive transformer, making it impossible to reach any of the breakers without climbing on the transformer . . . Then making it worse when protective bollards and fencing keep you even farther from the panel.

I’ve posted pictures in the past of panel covers notched to make room for counters and cabinets.

As intuitive as “access” seems to us, I’m afraid our needs are deliberately ignored by “circumstances.” With the inspections long over, there’s no enforcement. The code panel may have meant well with this clarification, but I fear they’re wasting their time. Violaters will continue to do as they please.

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Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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This simply points out the basic flaw in all inspection programs. Once we leave, we have no control over what happens next. It is everything from people seeing electrical rooms as handy storage to unpermitted activity burying our equipment.
Other than the Fire Marshal/Life safety officer and their periodic inspections there is no further enforcement possible.
I suppose if electricians simply refused any job that involved inaccessible equipment, building owners might be more aware of the problems, but I doubt it.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,398
Likes: 7
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"At the time and date of the Inspection", if the job is compliant, it passes. (Period)

If and when I (or one of my inspectors) are back at that site for a valid reason, that's when 'problems' are addressed. If it is not related to the reason we are there, we either cite it to the building owner, or make a call to the Fire Marshall, Health, or whoever.

Unpermitted activity (Gregs words) results in a Notice of Violation to the property owner, and followed up by a Notice of Penalty, if a 'compliance' permit is not provided, with a required inspection.

Yes, the buried boxes, etc., are a PITA that we come upon. But, who takes the blame??


John
Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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From my experience (granted almost 30 years ago), very seldom were office re configurations permitted. I never saw in inspector in a computer room after initial construction. That is Maryland, DC and Florida. The only time I have seen a permit pulled was when they were altering the structural elements of a building. I have seen them take all internal partition walls and build it out to the tenants specs without any permitting at all. I saw it 3 times in our office in Ft Myers and the last time it happened I was a licensed inspector. I said something to management about and they told me I was either an employee and I should mind my own business or I was an inspector and I should turn in my resignation. Shortly after that I did. They ripped it all out again shortly after that. I still never saw a permit. The building management seemed to believe if it was just partition walls it was like moving cubicle partitions around. On small re configurations they had their own people doing the work. A lot of time the walls stopped at the T-bar and the troffers stayed the same.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,398
Likes: 7
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Greg

If I got a $10.00 bill for each property that has work done that was not permitted/inspected I could go on a nice long vacation. Data/comm, alarm, and any other 'low volt' are the big offenders. Most of that is installs that use push sticks, over the drop ceiling tiles. The mess is found when there is a renovation w/permits.

"Drop ceilings hide a multitude of sins"


John
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,988
Likes: 35
G
Member
T bar was really bad and I was one of those guys. When they built our office in 86-87 everything was wired with IBM type 1 cabling but starting around 89 when things were being shaken up and the downsizing started we kept reducing our footprint in the building and people were moving into space that was not wired or there were new partition walls. The building folks were dragging the MC cable around and putting in the 120v stuff but there was no data wired. At that point we were pretty much all on 3270 coax so it was just a case of pulling a coax over the T bar and dropping it down behind a desk. I did make sure all the orange cords were gone tho wink

The fire marshal was OK with the coax but he pulled me aside and told me to get rid of all the orange cords and any plug strips that did not have an O/C device.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,474
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Cat Servant
Member
I suppose the “fine tuning” of definition annoys me for three reasons.
First, words mean things. When the usual dictionaries aren’t adequate I have to ask “why not?” We’ve seen far too many times where agenda-driven folks have manipulated language for reasons that become clear only later. (Remember when “gay” meant joyous or colorful, and your “partner” was either a businessman or a cowboy?)
Overly “precise” rules are ripe for abuse. Third parties insert themselves into matters for which they have no accountability, lying becomes an art form (“It’s not a swimming pool, it’s a big bath”), and real initiative is quashed (Remember when we all made ‘luminaires’ in shop class?).

Second, a law that can’t be enforced erodes respect for all laws. For example, notice how highway speed limits have become “minimums” rather than upper limits.
In our trade, the result is a refrain we’ve all heard: “But no inspector will ever see it.” This argument presumes that code rules are arbitrary — and can be ignored at any convenience.

Finally, there seems there is an underlying premise that the ordinary person isn’t literate enough to understand the rules. If that’s the case . . . Well, what’s the point of elections and juries? Code matters become the domain of a select few, with the rest of us peasants expected to shut up and genuflect.

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G
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I think a lot of this is just "code churn" to sell more books and vendors on the CDPs promoting their next new thing at the point of a government gun but we have already discussed that.


Greg Fretwell

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