ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Video door bell causing chime activation of coil
by gfretwell. 12/10/18 12:35 AM
Conduit fill Calculations
by gfretwell. 12/08/18 08:39 PM
Pull out fuse panel?
by Trumpy. 12/06/18 02:12 AM
Swimming Pool question
by HotLine1. 12/05/18 12:37 PM
Tingle off the water spigot
by rmiell. 11/30/18 01:03 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 34 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2225
06/28/01 03:01 PM
06/28/01 03:01 PM
C
C.Urch  Offline OP
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36
Kill Devil Hills, NC USA
Can someone give me code references or insight regarding service changes and how they affect existing range and dryer circuits. I'm upgrading an old 3 wire service to a 200 amp (disconnect feeding a main lug panel) 4-wire and am wondering if I need to install new 4 wire range and dryer circuits. This is an old flat top cinder block bungalow and needless to say, major destruction work would be required.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2226
06/28/01 04:51 PM
06/28/01 04:51 PM
M
Mike  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 62
I will venture to say that you shouldn't have to upgrade the 3-wire range and dryer circuits. But, the ultimate decision belongs to the AHJ.

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited 06-28-2001).]

Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2227
06/28/01 05:54 PM
06/28/01 05:54 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
This may be up to your AHJ, but as I stated on another board, I think you should replace the cables & outlets or purchase service entrance equipment that has room for a couple of more 2 pole breakers & extend the 3 wire cables into the new service entrance box.

Although three wire feeds were allowed for these types of loads, they were not allowed to be fed from a sub-panel, which is what you will be doing when you upgrade the service.

The current requirement is 250-140(3). The old reference was 250-60(c).

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 06-28-2001).]


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2228
06/28/01 06:13 PM
06/28/01 06:13 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
I will always try to include a 3 to 4 wire upgrade in such a service change, however if we would like to delve into the NEC:

250-140's key word is 'existing'

250-142(b) EX #1 states;
The frames of ranges, wall mounted oven, counter-mounted cooking units, and clothes dryers under the conditions permitted for existing installations by Section 250-140 shall be permitted to be grounded by a grounded conductor

Ok, so tape that puppy up & off to the N-bar!

BUT WAIT !

90-5(b) Permissive Rules
nice if you do it, but don't gotta!

Ok, so on to the G-bar???

BUT WAIT!

Art 100, Special Permission;
basically what Tom said

So can we do a poll of AHJ's here?
Door #1--Noodle Bar
Door #2--G-bar
Door #3--rejected until a 4-wire set-up


[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 06-28-2001).]

Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2229
06/29/01 12:55 PM
06/29/01 12:55 PM
S
silverbk  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 60
I would use the neutral bus, because a dryer and a range use the grounded conducter for several 120 volt circuits within the unit. For the timers and lighting. I would never intentionally put current onto a ground detail.

Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2230
06/29/01 02:23 PM
06/29/01 02:23 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

If the connection is in the main panel were neutral and ground are bonded, I don't see a difference between doors 1 and 2. Since it is carrying current, I would treat it as a neutral. Door 3 is the safe way.

Re: Existing range and Dryer 3-wire circuits #2231
07/04/01 08:02 AM
07/04/01 08:02 AM
R
RickG  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 37
South County, R.I. USA
I am with silverbk, the neutral/ground MUST go to the neutral buss.
RickG


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 803
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
252,194 Are you busy
189,176 Re: Forum
178,849 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.023s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9841 MB (Peak: 1.1382 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-12-14 01:29:30 UTC