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Joined: Feb 2024
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maxecn Offline OP
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Spec on the Rack-A-Tiers Cable Chase - Wire Bracket says "Maximum distance between each CC under floor joists is 16″ (when using under floor joists, the maximum distance, on one side from any wall, joist, pipe or ductwork is 12″)". For the application in the attached image, does this mean that the bracket must be within 12" of the center beam? Thanks!

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That's the way I read it.

BTW, we sell them here: Cable Chase


Bill
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I am not sure how this squares with 334.15(C).


Greg Fretwell
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maxecn Offline OP
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Thanks for the reply.

> BTW, we sell them here

If I spec these then I'll let my electrician know where he can obtain them.

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maxecn Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gfretwell
I am not sure how this squares with 334.15(C).

Wrt NEC 334.15(C), I'm told that Article 1103B says something like "Equipment that is listed, labeled or both shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling." Since the product spec says "Conforms to UL STD 2239" and if labeling and instructions are followed, I guess it's ok.

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Protection-wise, what's the difference between using these (spaced at 16") and going thru holes bored in joists?

It's pretty much the same situation.


Bill
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maxecn Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Bill Addiss
Protection-wise, what's the difference between using these (spaced at 16") and going thru holes bored in joists?
It's pretty much the same situation.
I guess the difference is that for this device the cables would be below the joists, lower than they would be if the cables were stapled to the bottom of joists which I understand is not permitted.

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Originally Posted by maxecn
Originally Posted by gfretwell
I am not sure how this squares with 334.15(C).

Wrt NEC 334.15(C), I'm told that Article 1103B says something like "Equipment that is listed, labeled or both shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling." Since the product spec says "Conforms to UL STD 2239" and if labeling and instructions are followed, I guess it's ok.

That still does not address the issue that prompted 334.15(C). You have wires installed below the joists. I always assumed it was because Harry Homeowner was going to nail up some kind of ceiling some day and "finish off" the basement.
Maybe if I get some time I will look into the ROPs to see why that was justified in the original article. It predates the 75 code, the oldest book I have (was in 336-8)


Greg Fretwell
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There is not a lot of enlightenment in the reference to UL STD 2239. It just references construction standards for cable and conduit support devices. I doubt it addresses location at all other than U/V protection and water.


Greg Fretwell
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Running boards won't offer protection from Harry putting up that ceiling. I always thought this was about discouraging him from hanging things from the cables.


Bill
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maxecn Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gfretwell
There is not a lot of enlightenment in the reference to UL STD 2239.

Also from the spec's wording:

Maximum distance between each CC under floor joists is 16″ (when using under floor joists, the maximum distance, on one side from any wall, joist, pipe or ductwork is 12″)

I can't find a reference in NEC 334 to any 12" requirements for wall, joist, pipe or ductwork. I wonder where that came from.

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Originally Posted by Bill Addiss
Running boards won't offer protection from Harry putting up that ceiling. I always thought this was about discouraging him from hanging things from the cables.

You can still hang your laundry from a cable running through bored holes.
I haven't been able to find the ROP for that rule to see the logic tho. It seems to be a very old rule. 336-8 in the 68 code is the same.


Greg Fretwell
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Nice brackets. For entertainment I’ve attached a picture of what I did in a similar situation.

On point: I understand the tortured code language to be referring to an assumption that joists will not be more than 24” on center. Should they be farther apart, additional support is needed.

The last time code panels addressed basement cables, the main concern was folks hanging stuff from them, or snagging them as they moved about. This was not seen as an issue if the cables were within the space between the joists. There, I presume, the general 48” support spacing is good enough.

The “hanging” concern is real. Somewhere on this site is a picture I took decades ago of the 1” EMT feeding a sub panel being used as the clothes rod for a locker room by the laundry service.

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