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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
I think it takes a different temperament to deal with wrestling a 500 kcmil into a lug than it does to finesse a 24 AWG without untwisting or overbending it.


I agree with that, I am a telcom guy and former EC. I can handle a small data installation but I would go out of my mind if I had to terminate hundreds of CAT6 jacks.

Also, you really can't lump all LV together. LV is made up of many separate and very specialized trades such as data, telecom, CATV, audio, etc,etc. Being proficient at one does not mean the person knows anything about another.

The NEC tries to cover all of LV with the singular objective of providing a safe installation. Following its requirements does not in any way mean that the installation is technically correct or even that it will work. The NEC only provides the minimum requirements so that the installation will not harm people or property. Consequently, any licensing only grants that the person who passed the test has a working knowledge of the Code requirements. A license should not be viewed as a license to do such work, only that you know how to do it safely.

Unfortunately there are some who think holding a license means that they are competant to do whatever it covers.

-Hal

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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 28
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That was a great explanation. So what now. We have many telecom guys who can't work under power. Every telecom guy should be partially electrician and specialize in particular field. For this you need recognized standards. If you are an electrician it is easier to approch this problem. Now it is sad couse people do use it in a bad way, but again it is becouse of no NTC-national telecomunications code.


“If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there”.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 7
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Mersadrad:
Keeping in mind that you are in Canada & I can only comment on the situation here in NJ....

Electrical Contractors are 'allowed' to do all wiring by state law; IF they so choose, and are qualified/trained to do it 'all'.

Yes, there are ECs that do data/comm very well, and ECs that do data/comm not so well.

Data/comm requires a state issued 'Wiring Exemption Card' for data/comm ONLY! Period, that's it, NO electrical work.

My personal business philosophy was 'do what you do best, and what you know' from day one to the last day.

The actual functionality & operation of the data/comm is not addressed by the NEC, as the wiring methods and materials are addressed. (As Hbiss stated above)

For any Canadian information please try a PM or email to one of the Canadian members, or send me a PM/email & I will move this thread to the Canadian Section!


John
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 28
Member
No need John, it is clear where one side of our trade is shifting. In Canada basicly we folow what US do. We take what we think is right and rotate a little what we don't find it nesserry. It is quite the same on this topic.


Chears...Mersad


“If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there”.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Member
During the early years of datacom standards were very much lower.

In many jurisdictions no license even existed.

That's what happens in a brand new field.

As time has gone by LV established itself as the lower paid craft.

That was a market decision. The typical 'apprentice' to a LV shop was just a monkey. No way did the j-men share much. Low pay and intermittent jobs caused massive turn-over.

Comes the dot.com boom and every monkey under the sun is hopping around pulling in datacom. Gradually the market realized that you can't use monkeys -- and standards lifted.

The latest high performance datacom is a whole new breed that requires serious talent -- and testing equipment to go with it.

So the datacom crowd has really elevated their game.

Out my way circa 2004 the LV crowd started up apprenticeship standards and back round checks, meaning no felons, no drugs, no arrests at all to stay in their club.

That has really elevated their game.

With the hard times now they want perfect driving records, too.

All of which means that their wage scale has headed straight north.

By comparison, j-men electricians are ten-a-penny out my way -- still.

Home construction is off by 90 percent here abouts.

But paranoia is a booming market.


Tesla
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
...you need recognized standards. If you are an electrician it is easier to approch this problem.

I completely agree that an electrician is going to easily learn and comply with the Code requirements of LV work whereas in my experience many if not most LV guys don't even know what the NEC or Code is and many don't even care.

During the early years of datacom standards were very much lower...

If you are talking about the standards for techs or workers, yes that's true but in many respects the thinking is still there today that anybody can install LV and it shouldn't cost much. So we have hacks who know nothing and customers who hire them and pay them nothing. Supply and demand.

-Hal

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 7
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Just an observation on data/comm.....
Recent inspection, data/comm laying on ceiling grid; strung over sprinkler pipes, & ty-wraped to MC ltg whips. Looked at the floor penetrations...1-1/4" EMT, conn/bushing on 'my side', down to lower floor....salami cuts, no conn/bush & 'what fire stop??" Mid-level floor of 15 story office bldg.

Red sticker & "Ill look at the rest, after you correct"

That was what I call a hack.

Next stop...above ceiling for data ctr. 1450+ cables, tray job two floors, 10 story office bldg. Only 'bad' thing I could find is they added another 175 cables & locations. Not a hack.

BTW, both are data/comm & access control contractors.


John
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8
New Member
I do both and they are two very different trades with very little in common

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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dsk Offline
Member
We have had pretty different development of the
#1) Power
#2) Phone
#3) Data

#1) Historically the power demand has been greater, and the focus in codes has been to security.

#) Phones has worked equal for about 100 years, and the development has been in the last few years to be changing to use data communication and plug and play modules. Safety has been less in focus.

#3) Data has develloped from a transfer system using phone-lines to pretty complex solutions with a mix of fiber-optics and thin twisted copper wires. Personnel safety has not been an issue, but protecting the equipment has solved most of those issues.


By my opinion all working with one of the systems need to know thebasics of the 2 others, and then specilaze. (#2 seems to be a dying field)

dsk

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,923
Likes: 32
G
Member
Now that we have power over ethernet we are blurring the lines again. A lot of those wall warts and other local low voltage supplies are going away but that ethernet cable is becoming a class 2 wiring method. Can Class 1 be far away (if it is not already here)?
I believe you are right about POTS (telephone) service. That is really leaving us fast. It is already not the service I grew up with where we had a battery powered pair going all the way from my phone to the central office, pretty much straight through. Now days, the "central office" is a silver box on the side of the road, connected to a fiber backbone and on utility power.


Greg Fretwell
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