ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
1897 paper on 110-220 incandescent lamps
by dsk - 08/25/19 01:02 PM
Southwire Recalls Electrical Outlet Boxes
by Admin - 08/21/19 06:39 PM
Fuse blower plug?
by HotLine1 - 08/20/19 01:50 PM
100 year old Light Bulb
by HotLine1 - 08/20/19 01:26 PM
Forum Updates Coming Soon.
by Admin - 08/18/19 01:55 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 2 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: gfretwell] #220035 04/16/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 19
W
Wiresmith Offline OP
Member
I'm not sure how this heat shrink doesn't cover it.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/23074O/3mtm-heavy-wall-heat-shrink-tubing-itcsn.pdf


Quote
Agency Approvals &
Self Certifications
UL Listed, UL 486D Standard, File E102356
CSA Certification, File LR86335
Voltage Rating 600 V
Direct burial and Submersible
For use with Listed, Crimp-type, Splice Connectors
All other product claims are made by 3M and not covered
by the UL Listing


Also, not that i believe you wouldn't be able to direct burial this splice but my thoughts on the application are in instances where you would use a compression butt splice, or maybe a junction block, all inside enclosures.Thanks for the point on the insulation though, I've only exothermic welded grounding and bonding conductors but i don't remember any kind of damage to the local insulation, definitely gonna look closer next time.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: Wiresmith] #220036 04/17/19 07:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,454
T
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member
Yes, if done properly twisting is a type of cold weld and very reliable but even back in the day not everyone managed to get that right. The same technique was used extensively in Japanese audio equipment back in the 60s and 70s, it's known as "wire wrap" in that field. In audio it was typically used to connect wires to a post soldered into a PCB rather than joining wires but the physics are the same.

The worst splice method I've personally encountered is looping several small wires around an M3 screw with nut and washer, tightening the screw and taping the whole lot. It was tremendously popular from the early days of electricity into the early 1960s in Austria and these splices fail by the dozen! I've never been to a place with that type of splice that didn't have at least a few loose ones! My first experience with them was pulling a few splices from a box just to get an idea of what goes where, then turning the circuit back on, only to hear a highly ominous crackle and fizzle from that box! Just moving the splices had loosened the connection enough to make it arc! Needless to say I always disconnected all power when leaving from that point until the full rewire was completed!

Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: Wiresmith] #220037 04/17/19 07:59 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
G
ghost307 Offline
Member
Wire wrap was also used in industrial equipment of the day. When I worked at GE I 'fondly' recall making up control systems for VFDs using the wire wrap method.
I even have my old wire wrap tool in my box of mementoes...along with my slide rule and drafting triangles.


Ghost307
Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: Wiresmith] #220038 04/17/19 10:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,383
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Wire wrap depends on the sharp edges of the pins biting into the wire as you wrap it. That is not like simply twisting 2 round conductors together.
As for the shrink tube, I still wonder how many of the characteristics of the wire insulation are "equivalent to that of the conductors". What is the temperature rating? 60c? 75c? 90c?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: gfretwell] #220041 04/19/19 01:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 19
W
Wiresmith Offline OP
Member
Quote
Continuous Operating Temperature (less adhesive) -67ºF-230ºF (-55ºC-110ºC)

Heat shock (outer wall only) 4 hrs @ 491ºF (255 ºC)No dripping, flowing,cracking

Specifications The heat shrink tubing must be chemically cross-linked, thermally stabilized
polyolefin, capable of operation at cable emergency overload temperatures of 266ºF
(130ºC).

The tubing must have UL Listing (UL 486D, 600V) and be approved for the
use and be CSA Certified.



https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/23074O/3mtm-heavy-wall-heat-shrink-tubing-itcsn.pdf




Quote
1.3 These requirements apply to sealed wire connector systems intended for use with 30 AWG (0.05 mm2) through 2,000 kcmil (1,012 mm2) conductors with currents not exceeding the ampacity of insulated conductors rated either 75°C (167°F) or 90°C (194°F) and intended for use at 1500 V or less.


https://standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_486D


I know there is some junk shrink tubing out there, but your statement has me curious because not that i work with a lot of hard line standard followers but i have never heard of a problem code wise or in practicality of using shrink tubing for splices. have you heard of problems either standard wise or in actual use? /inspector issues? do you think it is a poor application?

thanks

Re: Welded Copper Connections [Re: Wiresmith] #220042 04/19/19 04:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,383
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Cool. I guess my problem was that I just saw the unlisted "junk" trying to be used. Good to know.
Thanks.


Greg Fretwell
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Grover
Grover
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 21
GeneSF 6
Popular Topics(Views)
257,981 Are you busy
193,706 Re: Forum
183,313 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3