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250.104 #219947
02/12/19 09:16 PM
02/12/19 09:16 PM
B
BigB  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 742
Tucson, AZ USA
I have a local inspector challenging a bonding method we have been using. Many times when we replace a service on an older dwelling the gas is closer than the water, sometimes a lot closer. In order to avoid running 50-100 feet of GEC all the way to the water we simply run to the house side of the nearby gas service then jumper the gas and water pipes at the water heater. Today I was told that we are in violation as we must run to the water as our "primary" bond was how it was put. I cannot find reference to this in the code unless he is interpreting 250.104(1) differently than I am. It does not say the water pipes must be bonded directly to the service equipment etc etc, just that they be bonded to it which in my interpretation they are.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 250.104 [Re: BigB] #219948
02/13/19 08:57 AM
02/13/19 08:57 AM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 977
Chicago Illinois USA
A gas pipe must be bonded to the electrical service, but it is not permitted to use it as a ground conductor.
You need to run a legal grounding conductor (sized per the relevant table) back to the Service point.

This has been the case for many years; it sounds like this is just the first time that an AHJ noticed and red tagged it.


Ghost307
Re: 250.104 [Re: ghost307] #219949
02/13/19 09:23 AM
02/13/19 09:23 AM
B
BigB  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 742
Tucson, AZ USA
Originally Posted by ghost307
A gas pipe must be bonded to the electrical service, but it is not permitted to use it as a ground conductor.
You need to run a legal grounding conductor (sized per the relevant table) back to the Service point.

This has been the case for many years; it sounds like this is just the first time that an AHJ noticed and red tagged it.

Can you reference a code article that clarifies that? Also as far as an AHJ noticing it, it was recommended by one of the city inspectors about 8 years ago and we point it out on every inspection with no objections until yesterday.

Re: 250.104 [Re: BigB] #219950
02/13/19 10:09 AM
02/13/19 10:09 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,090
Brick, NJ USA
250.104 (B) commentary within the 2014 NEC Handbook provides a detailed explanation of the bonding of metalic gas piping systems. I am aware that the commentary is NOT 'Code', however it does provide an explanation.


John
Re: 250.104 [Re: BigB] #219952
02/13/19 11:51 AM
02/13/19 11:51 AM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 977
Chicago Illinois USA
See NFPA 70 Sec. 250-104(b) and NFPA 54 [Sec. 3.14(a)].

NEC 250-104(b) requires you to bond the aboveground portion of a metal gas piping system to a grounding electrode system for safety reasons. NFPA 54; Sec. 3.15 does not allow you to use aboveground portions of a metal gas piping system or its components as a conductor in electrical circuits.

The difference between Grounding and Bonding leads to a lot of confusion.
The gas pipe needs to be Bonded to the Service Ground so that it maintains the same potential as the electrical system. This is done at a single point. If the gas pipe is used as part of the grounding path there is the risk that current could flow along a pipe that contains a flammable gas.

Saying that the gas line needs to be Grounded is a common holdover from when the differences between Bonding and Grounding were not clearly defined.


Ghost307
Re: 250.104 [Re: BigB] #219953
02/13/19 01:56 PM
02/13/19 01:56 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,090
Brick, NJ USA
Ghost:
Thanks for that. I did not have time to compose the details that you stated.

Bonding & grounding are misunderstood by many.


John
Re: 250.104 [Re: ghost307] #219954
02/13/19 08:22 PM
02/13/19 08:22 PM
B
BigB  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 742
Tucson, AZ USA
Originally Posted by ghost307
See NFPA 70 Sec. 250-104(b) and NFPA 54 [Sec. 3.14(a)].

NEC 250-104(b) requires you to bond the aboveground portion of a metal gas piping system to a grounding electrode system for safety reasons. NFPA 54; Sec. 3.15 does not allow you to use aboveground portions of a metal gas piping system or its components as a conductor in electrical circuits.




Thanks for the info, very helpful. Looks like I learned something today.

Re: 250.104 [Re: BigB] #219961
02/16/19 02:08 PM
02/16/19 02:08 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,362
Estero,Fl,usa
You still need a supplemental electrode if you are using a water pipe.

Quote

250.53(D)(2) Supplemental Electrode Required. A metal underground
water pipe shall be supplemented by an additional electrode of
a type specified in 250.52(A)(2) through (A)(8)


Greg Fretwell

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