ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
New fan motor for Panasonic
by HotLine1. 06/25/19 03:53 PM
Burning out of return(white) side of 120volt rec
by crselectric. 06/14/19 02:15 AM
Video door bell causing chime activation of coil
by JoeTestingEngr. 06/13/19 12:43 PM
Troubleshooting Voltage Drop Across Relay
by gfretwell. 06/09/19 11:49 AM
Apple Recalls Three-Prong Wall Plug Adapters
by Admin. 06/05/19 09:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 13 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219806
11/29/18 10:04 AM
11/29/18 10:04 AM
J
jake2018  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17
minnesota
sorry yes all gas appliances

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219809
11/29/18 02:16 PM
11/29/18 02:16 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,368
Estero,Fl,usa
The only issue I see is physical protection. A drywall screw into a 100a SE can get pretty spectacular.


Greg Fretwell
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219811
11/29/18 02:33 PM
11/29/18 02:33 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,092
Brick, NJ USA
Nail plates over any bored/notched framing and EMT conduit solves the physical damage issue.

I had a 'friend' years back who was hanging portraits in his condo; drilled a hole for a molly/toggle, hit the adjacent units 200 amp riser. Was not a pretty scene, and cost him about $2500!!


John
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219813
11/29/18 07:37 PM
11/29/18 07:37 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,368
Estero,Fl,usa
I have always been against the idea of using stackers to move cables 1.25" away from framing horizontally but still right behind the drywall for just that reason. For some reason someone decided the 1.25" did not have to be back from the drywall. Harry homeowner hanging pictures may not be looking for studs, the Mrs says "right here" and that is where they run in the screw, nail or drill.


Greg Fretwell
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219814
11/29/18 11:51 PM
11/29/18 11:51 PM
J
jake2018  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17
minnesota
thanks for the input, ok so emt or pvc sc 40 or 80?
the walls are 2 x 6 and i always use nail plates.

thank for all the help

Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219891
01/06/19 11:34 PM
01/06/19 11:34 PM
J
jake2018  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17
minnesota
HI there, well I did the install with the advice on here, thank you all!!
i pole mounted 200 amp breaker, the old 3 wire feed to the back of the house from the pole, into a terminal box that splits a feeder into the garage, a feeder into the house, a feeder into a room upstairs above a garage. (terminal box has no ocpd) its just a terminal box, load calculations is all under max amps, ok so the inspectors liked that, as all lines protected to all out buildings. some stuff grandfathered in some not. terminal box is grounded to a ground rod thats all. ok i know needs more...

so heres my question, the garage, the upstairs room i want to run a ground wire to a 8 foot ground rod. one for each panel. space them 6 or more feet each, i want to make each breaker box a 4 wire. (i looked at nec 250, but?) the main house is a 3 wire bonded neutral/ground panel. grandfathered in, i know thats not a main ground return path??, any suggestions on where to ground the wire besides rods?

one inspector said if i take all grounds off each panel for each building old or new and have hot, hot, separate neutral and separate ground using a ground rod for each panel he would sign off, the other said no you cant. and i cant dig up the lines that go to each building. they met code in 1991.there are no pipes, lines etc except a propane copper line to all buildings but its not used as a ground at any location. so any suggestions? im 90% done except for the ground issue. i know im supposed to have 4 wire on all new work. thank you for helping.

Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219894
01/07/19 10:50 PM
01/07/19 10:50 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,368
Estero,Fl,usa
You can't just drive a rod and call it a ground, it must be bonded the neutral.
250.4(A)(5)

Quote
(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a low-impedance circuit facilitating the operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.


Greg Fretwell
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219895
01/08/19 02:33 PM
01/08/19 02:33 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,092
Brick, NJ USA
Reading thru this is causing my head to get ready to explode.

"one inspector said if i take all grounds off each panel for each building old or new and have hot, hot, separate neutral and separate ground using a ground rod for each panel he would sign off,"

"the other said no you cant"

My head hurts! How could this occur here in the USA?? These guys licensed?? Must they go for any CEUs?

OK, I see the point of an old, old situation, that is questionable IF it ever passed any inspections from day one. OK, sometimes the 'grandfather' thing can be used (here we call it REHAB, but....this sounds worse every post.


John
Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219902
01/10/19 03:45 AM
01/10/19 03:45 AM
J
jake2018  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 17
minnesota
HI, yes it does get worse with every post, I have fought with these three inspectors from day one on this project. i am volunteering and i know what i am supposed to do, then the other inspectors come in change stuff, they are all in a "i know better then the last guy attitude" so i am 90% done, so far no ground rods at all the outbuildings. i did not unhook any old work that was grounded. i did not ground to any buried propane line, (there is 400 feet of it) i know boom..

the old 3 wire/components in the outbuildings did pass code in 1990 or 1991, it was done right for 3 wire, job looked great who ever did it. no connections by any metal to any other building, this whole project was a headache from the start, there is no way tie to the old buildings into a 4 wire system as digging up hundreds feet of wire isnt going to happen. i think it is safe there as 3 wire.

ok so the last 2 things is, there is a terminal box that is installed on the back of the house like i said earlier, and it is a 3 wire from the 200 amp breaker on the pole that goes into that terminal box.. so its 3 wire. i ran 4 wire from that outside terminal box to the garage breaker box and the upper, (call it a apartment) breaker box. hot, hot, neutral, ground. each ground is bonded to each box. neutrals are each separate, not bonded or tied to ground at the boxes.

so i thought i did each thing to code, then the 2nd inspector says ok, but i want each new box to have a ground rod.
ok sure 6 feet apart? do i really need them? its all 3 wire except the 2 new boxes. the old work he wants each box to have a ground rod too, i looked at section 250.

so before i take up up serious drinking etc, could some one please, please tell me what if anything i am doing wrong...
i really thought i was doing code before this mess now i wonder...

Re: sec cable code conflict [Re: jake2018] #219905
01/11/19 03:23 AM
01/11/19 03:23 AM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,368
Estero,Fl,usa
Nobody ever got it trouble driving another ground rod as long as it is bonded to the grounding electrode system.


Greg Fretwell
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
sbi
sbi
indiana
Posts: 47
Joined: March 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 2
Khombo 2
Popular Topics(Views)
255,884 Are you busy
191,858 Re: Forum
181,623 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.047s Queries: 16 (0.016s) Memory: 1.0330 MB (Peak: 1.2119 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2019-06-27 10:52:07 UTC