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Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: dsk] #219695
10/09/18 05:27 AM
10/09/18 05:27 AM
T
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,433
Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted by dsk
Originally Posted by gfretwell
I think a 60hz motor would still run at 50hz but if it is an induction motor it will run hotter and slower.

That is correct, the 50Hz motors does hoften have more iron (are heavier) so temperature monitoring may be a good idea.
The speed of an induction motor will follow the frequency!


That's exactly the point of using higher frequencies, especially the 400 Hz in aviation. Transformers and motors can use much less iron and that means less weight. On the other hand if you need slow-running motors they need to have more poles than their 50 or 60-Hz equivalents.

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Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: mel80] #219702
10/12/18 03:07 PM
10/12/18 03:07 PM
A
annemarie1  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 75
england
When I was working in the test dept of a transformer manufacturer we made some 3 phase 400 cycle transformers they were tiny even the 5 KVA ones were easy to pick up not lime the 50 cycle ones which weighed a ton not literally but still heavy

Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: annemarie1] #219704
10/12/18 05:50 PM
10/12/18 05:50 PM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,250
SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted by annemarie1
When I was working in the test dept of a transformer manufacturer we made some 3 phase 400 cycle transformers they were tiny even the 5 KVA ones were easy to pick up not lime the 50 cycle ones which weighed a ton not literally but still heavy

Yep,
This is why the switch-mode power supply has become so popular, the higher the frequency, the smaller the transformer you require.
I still have a pet hate of them things though, especially as far as things like RFI goes.

Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: mel80] #219716
10/17/18 12:25 PM
10/17/18 12:25 PM
D
dsk  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
Norway
The loss in the lines are greater with higher frequencies, that is one of the reasons for lo HZ train supply.
The other reason might have been at 16 2/3 hz a single phase motor works better.

I believe we have seen 25 and 40 Hz systems too, but not any more? Niagara falls might have had a 25Hz station?

dsk

Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: mel80] #219737
10/28/18 10:14 AM
10/28/18 10:14 AM
T
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,433
Vienna, Austria
I think the main reason for 16 2/3 Hz was the motor issue, apparently large universal motors have issues with brush arcing at 50 Hz or more.
25 Hz definitely existed and in some rare instances still exists. Austria has a long-ish electrified narrow-gauge (1000 mm) railway line that was electrified in 1910 using 25 Hz. Originally the power station at Wienerbruck also supplied several villages along the line with electricity, today it's only for the railway itself but still 25 Hz.
For the most part Europe uses three different railway power systems, 15 kV 16.7 Hz in Austria, Germany, Switzerland and Sweden, 1.5 or 3 kV DC in a bunch of countries (France, possibly Belgium, Italy, maybe Spain, the Netherlands, Poland, parts of the Czech Republic etc.) and 25 kV/50 Hz (parts of the Czech Republic, the UK, Hungary, high-speed lines in Spain, etc.). I suspect 50 Hz AC is only common in countries that started late into the electrification process, mostly after WWI. Apparently the first Hungarian electric locos used ridiculously complex electromechanical control systems while the 16 2/3 Hz ones simply used transformers with a bunch of taps (very efficient) and the DC ones used series resistors.

Re: 220/230/240V 60Hz Systems [Re: Texas_Ranger] #219748
11/07/18 12:48 AM
11/07/18 12:48 AM
A
Albert  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 78
Falls Church, VA
In the US, Amtrak (the national passenger rail service) operates a big 25Hz single-phase system, dating to the 1920s, for traction power between Washington DC and New York City, and between Philadelphia and Harrisburg, PA. It includes two dedicated 25Hz hydroelectric generators at Safe Harbor Dam on the Susquehanna River, motor-generator frequency converters in PA and NJ, and more recently, solid-state cycloconverters

See:
Amtrak 25Hz traction power system

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