ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures

I've got a customer that wants their T12 florescent lights put on a dimmer. I've found out through my supplier that the ballast will have to be changed, tubes changed to T8's. Also found out by the specs on the dimming ballast that an extra wire will have to be pulled from the dimmer to the lights. Also in the specs, it said that the fixture ends may not be suitable, so I'm looking at just changing out the fixtures all together for a LED dimmable or Florescent dimmable. I imagine I will still have to pull the extra wire ( according to the wiring instructions per fixture I guess). Anyone have any suggestions. Seems like the LED option might be best.
Thanks.

I don't know if these are available in the US, but I've had good experiences with the products from this company.

http://rabdesign.ca/product/cpl-led/

Hope this help.

RAB reps show up at our trade organization lunches just about every time. They have a very extensive line of LED products that they are pitching.

A lot of variables when it comes to upgrading lights.
For example, we replaced almost a hundred 2x4 and 2x2 lay-in fluorescent fixtures (T12 and T8) with LED in a lab area. Some staff complained that it was too bright especially for those looking at computer monitors. It sounded like dimmer control would be needed. A week later I removed 3 fixtures to darken a couple of areas. A month after that the lab supervisor told me that nobody was complaining anymore. Apparently everyone now appreciated the brighter work area and needed time to adjust.
I mention this example because we could've rushed ahead and spent a lot of time and money for dimmer control that wasn't needed.
Not sure what your client's situation is but I find a lot of options need to be weighed before decisions are made.
Btw, the sockets for old T12's need to be changed to shunted sockets when upgrading to new electronic T8 ballasts.

Replacement LED fixtures are gaining more popularity, over the retrofit kits into existing fixture bodies. I see a lot within both office space renovations, and warehouse lighting.

The changes in LED technology is amazing. I particularly like the 2x2, and 2x4 lay ins that are the thickness of a ceiling tile, and have a super even illumination appearance.

Yes, there are dimmable LEDs, in the 'higher end' offices, and conference rooms.

PS: Over 5000 assorted LEDs going into a new distribution center, with more to follow. It's a 1,000,000 SF bldg., with a 750k SF Mezz.

Just thought that I would pass this along...

I was at a trade show last week and one manufacturer was telling me that in less than a month, that 1x4, 2x2 and 2x4 lay-ins will be available that will operate on 120V to 347V and everything in between.
The neat thing is these will have switches on the back of them for wattage (brightness) and colour.
I would think that if one manufacturer has them, then they all will very soon.

Cheers... Bruce

Good to see that they are coming out with more options. I'm sure the price will come down once more manufacturer pick them up like you state.

I worked at a house a few weeks ago where the owner had a dimmer switch in the kitchen and they had recently replaced bulbs with CFL bulbs. I told them CFL are known to be a fire hazard with dimmers but they ignored my concerns. I guess they don't really use the dimmer anyways but I still gave them my professional option. Hopefully they don't have any issues.

I suspect that LED lights are designed so that when they fail, we have to replace the whole fixture. A 5 year warranty is nice, but means less if we can't repair the light. Edison base lights lasted through incandescent, CFL and, now, LED. I don't see that life span being possible with the new fixtures.

Is it planned obsolescence and we won't be able to buy the same style light in a few years?

How are we going to explain to our customers that if they want their lights to match, they need to replace them all?

twh:

Me being in the inspection end of our trade, I have not thought of your point.

I guess that the driver unit could (?) be replaced, and the tubes (lamps) should (?) be available in the future.

I guess in this throw away society that we live in, perhaps it is planned obsolescence.

Also, with the various mfg warranties, who is to say that some of the mfgs will be around??

I think I would wait until they get a color changing dimmable so it matches the color curve of an incandescent before I did a big dining room or something. They tried dimmable LEDs in a room at my wife;s place replacing PAR38s and the customer hated them.

My company uses this dimmable LED ceiling light and haven't seen seen any problems with it:

https://www.aqlightinggroup.com/ind...t-panel-ceiling-troffer-luminaire-flp22/

You fellas gotta check this out>>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COYTnJaUyuE

~S~

What are electricians going to do when they make stuff like this that the cleaning lady can install

Maybe we can do cleaning in our spare time?

Seriously, magnetic driver mounting, and a choice of a magnetic mount for the ‘bulb’?

It's always something new Hotone......dunno 'bout you but my first thought was that it doesn't really have an EGC or any means to screw into that which might be grounded.

Is a magnet an EGC now?

~S~

We'll do what we always do.
Charge idiots to fix the jobs that the idiots screw up.
I run into people everyday who firmly believe the little voice in their head when it says "I don't understand what you do...so it must be super easy".

Those DIY books that the big box stores sell to the untrained (and sometime untrainable) are gold mines for many of us.

Ghost

Yes, we do generate $$$ from a lot of DIY jobs (or ‘handyman’) projects gone bad.

I remember a service call, light on stairway ‘out’. Found the husband took out a switch at the lower staircase, put a ‘new’ one in, then proceeded to take the fixture, and the ‘other’ switch out. Was a 3-way; he put a sp in. He also opened up all the splices in the fixture location.

A few trips up/down the stairs, two new 3-way sw, and a few wirenuts; done. He was not happy, and wife was pretty mad. He was not thrilled at the bill either. His comment was. “How did you do that in 30+/- minutes”???

Unfortunate the whole market advocates what usually is the better part of our trades service industry biz .

If you think on it , the big box stores, Utube, all the home improvement shows, and even some HI's here all advocate a DIY mentality

In my state there's actually more of a market for failed apprentices to work for maintenance or home improvement companies, than a bona fide license.

So much so,that our state AG sent out questionnaires to any licensed entity asking how to address it>>>
Home Improvement and Construction Contractors

I guess they've had the uhmmm.....litigant radish!

~S~

~S~

Hey, it looks like Vermont is in need of a Home Improvement Lic. , like we have here in NJ. It looks like it’s a week to late to submit ant comments also.

NJ implemented the HI Lic back at least 5 years as a guess. IMHO, it reduced some of the trunk slammers, but needs some policing.

Our latest was a HVAC contractors Lic.

The above are all under the DCA and the NJ UCC

Well i do believe they're asking what other states do HotOne, it's a good thing and far overdue imho.

We basically serve a career in a dualopoly here. There is permitted and unpermitted work.

The 'unpermitted' being all our single family dwellings, absolutely zero requirements , I won't bore you with horror stories , save that they apparently have gotten out of hand according to the 'powers that be'

Perhaps we're a good study for what libertopians and libertopia can amount to

I think i'll send my AHJ a big holiday thank you now.....

~S~

~s~
FWIW, our neighbor state (Pennsylvania) a few years back adopted the NJ UCC, and also mandated inspectors and permits. It used to be a ‘Wild West’ back always.

If I saw that your home state was ‘shopping’ before the cut-off date, I may have suggested that they look into our UCC. It’s not perfect, but...

I'm sorry they closed it before you could opine HotOne

But i'm fairly confident they'll be informed of such resources

We're such a small and inconsequential state you see, lack the fiscal resources to 'reinvent the wheel' ...far more likely to copy/paste what's tried true elsewhere

~Sparky from the wild northeast

In Florida licenses are by trade. I don't think there is such a thing as a "handyman" license and it gets pretty fuzzy what is allowed by the unlicensed. There are a few AHJs around here who say you need a permit to replace a snap switch (EC license required). It is fairly well accepted that a "maintenance man" can replace a ballast on the property of their employer and that got a little less fuzzy when they just started plugging in.
There are specialty licenses in some trades like EC that allow limited types of work. Alarm and general low voltage would be two examples. I am not sure about things like plumbing. My guess is the same AHJ who wants a permit for a snap switch, wants one to replace a faucet or a toilet.
There is a pretty generous "owner/builder" exception that allows an owner to pull permits for just about anything in their own home. Once you get past permit intake, it goes pretty easy but your average homeowner does not understand how many things require engineering stamps on their plans.

OK, let’s see if I can do this quickly...
NJ Licenses

Electrical Contractor & Business Permit
(Power/light, all low voltage items, etc)
Burglar Alarm
Fire Alarm. (May combine w/Burg). (EC may do)
Locksmith. (May do access control) (EC may do)
HVAC Contractor. (Replacement restricted; Comm restricted). Limitations in flux
Plumbing Contractor (May do HVAC; hard to define restrictions here)
Fire Sprinkler Contractor
Fire Supression Contractor. (Cooking Hoods, Exhaust, etc.)
Home Improvement Contractor. (Covers a whole lot of things, but not all)
Builders License (General Contractor)

Probably more, I’ll see if I can find more....time permitting