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Is this a fix or just a bandaid? #217673
10/08/16 03:46 PM
10/08/16 03:46 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,324
Estero,Fl,usa
[Linked Image]


Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217674
10/09/16 09:52 AM
10/09/16 09:52 AM
T
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
Regina, Sask.
Fix the problem of water entering the top of the cabinet with a seal on the top edge and fix the problem of water accumulating on the bottom of the cabinet with a drain hole.

Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217675
10/09/16 03:20 PM
10/09/16 03:20 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,324
Estero,Fl,usa
The story was that a sprinkler was squirting up on the bottom but I agree it looks like the intrusion was into the cabinet.
NEMA 3R assumes the rain is coming down, not up.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217676
10/09/16 11:31 PM
10/09/16 11:31 PM
T
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
Regina, Sask.
That's a fix. This is a Bandaid

Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217677
10/10/16 01:31 PM
10/10/16 01:31 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I give up: What's the problem?

First, what I see: I see a disconnect cabinet that is probably the main disconnect for the meters next to it. (The lack of a ground wire, and a single black wire entering a small pipe suggest this). I see a minor amount of rust on the bottom of the cabinet and the bottom corners of the door.

In the 'fix' I see what looks like a piece of sheet metal fixed to the front of the door, some new concrete poured around the pipes, and the exposed pipe concealed behind more sheet metal.

I can't see the connections, so I can't make sense out of the different pipes having different wire counts.

Did I miss something?

First, as to the rust: It looks minor. Indeed, I'd have a tough time finding an install that had less rust on it! Especially in industrial locations, I've often seen panel bottoms completely rotted out.

I don't know what the new concrete and sheet metal were supposed to accomplish.

Was the concrete intended to cover rusted openings in the conduit? With the new concrete being level, all they've done is move the puddle up another few inches. (Concrete might also have entered the pipe -good luck with the next pull!)

A few more general comments:
1) As noted, the weathering appears typical;

2) I assume that IS a disconnect. I would question whether the 'replacement' front continued to properly latch;

3) If this is 'sealed' equipment - on the supply side of the meters - the NEC doesn't apply;

4) The disconnect looks to be a common industrial enclosure. Perhaps NEMA 12, but NOT NEMA 3R rated. It might even be simply a NEMA 1 disconnect; is there a gasket?;

5) Not to worry; service-side equipment generally need not be UL listed, and the use of unrated stuff is very common;

6) It wasn't until recently (circa 2003) that UL increased their requirements for rust protection of the metal used in these applications. Before then, it was 'paint OR other means.' Now, it's 'zinc AND paint.'

7) What's the pad for, anyway? I usually see the pipes simply exit the earth;

8) Where the conduits enter the bottom of a cabinet, I'm accustomed to seeing the pipes simply be cut off. If you're lucky, they put on a bushing. The bottom of the box is simply cut out; there's NO direct connection of the pipe to cabinet. Perhaps 1/3 of the time are grounding bushings used; and,

9) I've seen plenty of sheet metal enclosures 'field made.' I've had a few made myself. Now, "mine" were closely matched to the dimensions of whatever they were attached to, I patched the thickness of the cabinet metal, and I've painted to match, though I can't see where that's 'required;' and,

10) The mismatch in enclosure sizes guarantees water will enter the lower section.

Conclusion: No improvement to the original situation.

Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217678
10/10/16 01:51 PM
10/10/16 01:51 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Just a guess but....
Concrete 'base' to provide a level start for the new sheetmetal.

Original enclosure is still in place, was scraped/sanded and painted.

Sheetmetal added to deflect water from irrigation sprinklers.

Job looks like single phase, 120/240 volt, with 3 sets of conductors. GEC exits main disco rear left corner.


John
Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217679
10/10/16 05:19 PM
10/10/16 05:19 PM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 963
Chicago Illinois USA
Maybe I'm missing something...but the conduits leaving the box in the first picture are in a different position that the conduits in the second picture.


Ghost307
Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217680
10/10/16 07:39 PM
10/10/16 07:39 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Hmmmm....

Nice catch.

(Pic of the interior)
Perhaps, looking at the first pic, the right front conduit was 'relocated' to the rear right. Look at what may be a 'blow-out patch' over where the right front conduit was.

Strange that the concrete looks 'wet' with the three conduits in the triangle layout, and cured in the first pic, looking down with the conduits in a 'new position'.

Or, is the first pic, a 'before the Band-Aid,' and the 2nd 'after'???


John
Re: Is this a fix or just a bandaid? [Re: gfretwell] #217681
10/10/16 08:49 PM
10/10/16 08:49 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
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Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,324
Estero,Fl,usa
This is a thing that was done a few times at different installations


Greg Fretwell

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