ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
JimL 3
Recent Posts
Weatherhead, POA, height?
by JimL. 06/23/17 01:19 PM
Feed to spa panel
by sparkync. 06/23/17 11:16 AM
Windows 7 update problem
by ampherder. 06/21/17 07:01 AM
Norwegian power?
by dsk. 06/19/17 03:40 PM
Anyone ever take a Furnas A14D drum sw apart?
by gfretwell. 06/17/17 08:14 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
238,165 Are you busy
173,336 Re: Forum
166,199 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 63 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#217486 - 08/17/16 06:29 PM Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire?  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
In Michigan all receptacles within 6' of water require gfci protection. This includes dishwasher and disposal. I ran a multi-wire for those 2 circuits. I forgot about the GFCI requirement and failed inspection. I figured I'll just spend the $100 on a 2p15a gfci breaker and call it good. Well.... I failed again! err, darn it!

I called the inspector and he said gfci breakers don't work on multi-wire. Stating that there will be a different draw on each leg and it will trip. I told him ok I didn't know that, I will research that and correct the violation.

Is this correct?




Shake n Bake

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#217489 - 08/17/16 09:31 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 902
Chicago Illinois USA
I agree with the AHJ.
2 pole GFI breakers are suitable for a 240V-1 phase load, but not for multiwire branch circuits.


Ghost307

#217490 - 08/17/16 10:37 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,083
Estero,Fl,usa
I thought there were some 120/240 GFCIs. What do they use on spas? They typically have L/L and L/N loads.
You might also find out they have them but not for your panel. This is the time to talk to your supply house.


Greg Fretwell

#217491 - 08/17/16 10:50 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,083
Estero,Fl,usa
Siemens lists this one and I also saw a C/H GFCB220.
Both say 120/240 implying they will deal with L/N loads.

https://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdis...alog/Documents/sf-11-sect-01-032-033.pdf



Greg Fretwell

#217492 - 08/17/16 10:51 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,083
Estero,Fl,usa
Siemens lists this one and I also saw a C/H GFCB220.
Both say 120/240 implying they will deal with L/N loads.

https://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdis...alog/Documents/sf-11-sect-01-032-033.pdf



Greg Fretwell

#217499 - 08/18/16 09:29 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
It's a Cutler Hammer GFTCB215 (use to be GFCB215), 120/240v.

Last edited by Trick440; 08/18/16 09:32 PM.

Shake n Bake

#217500 - 08/18/16 09:49 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA
I did find this...
http://ecmweb.com/content/think-gfci

"GFCI receptacles can be used on multiwire circuits, but they must be wired such that the neutral on the load side of the GFCI is not shared by two ungrounded conductors. Failure to observe this requirement will result in a differential current any time a load served by an ungrounded conductor not connected to the GFCI is energized, immediately tripping the GFCI.

Note that multipole GFCI circuit breakers are available for use on multiwire circuits. The GFCI sensor mechanisms in these breakers operate on the same principle as the GFCI receptacle, except that the current from all ungrounded conductors and the neutral pass through the "adding machine." As in the case of the receptacles, the unit will trip when it detects unbalanced current over the 4mA to 6mA trip range."


Not sure if the breaker I used is a true multi-pole, the 120/240v seems like it is.

Last edited by Trick440; 08/18/16 09:52 PM.

Shake n Bake

#217501 - 08/18/16 10:29 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
Trick440  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Waterford, MI, USA


Shake n Bake

#217503 - 08/20/16 03:41 AM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,083
Estero,Fl,usa
I bet the breaker you have, works. You can always put in a couple receptacles and try it. See if it will hold a load on each side (one at a time) and see if both sides trip with the GFCI tester


Greg Fretwell

#217504 - 08/20/16 03:35 PM Re: Can't use 2p gfci breakers on multi-wire? [Re: Trick440]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I have not responded until now, as it's been a decade since I installed a 2-pole GFCI breaker.

I had a little confusion installing that one; what I thought was a 'ground wire' on the circuit really needed to be treated as neutral, and pass through the breaker. (The receptacle was a 3-prong style).

I'd venture that if the breaker has a neutral terminal, it can handle single-pole loads. The internals appear to 'do the math.'

The only 'joker' is that the breaker likely has only one neutral connection; you'll need to combine your circuit neutrals before they get to the breaker. A pigtail and wire nut will suffice.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
TOOL_5150
TOOL_5150
Bay Area
Posts: 61
Joined: August 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8212 MB (Peak: 1.0006 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-06-23 19:03:57 UTC