ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Where is Everyone?
by gfretwell - 04/09/21 01:08 AM
HI gang, long time since I was here...
by gfretwell - 04/09/21 01:02 AM
Lock-down Thread
by gfretwell - 04/06/21 09:30 PM
Portable Generator Grounding
by JoeTestingEngr - 03/14/21 03:48 PM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 4 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions #212141 12/16/13 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
I have a 480v, 33-A (single phase) heater to control. As provided by the vendor, the heater is simply 'on' or 'off.' I'd like to find a way to control the output. The heater is nothing more than a bit of sheet metal holding a resistance element. Think "big toaster."

The heater is the first of many, that will be permanently mounted at work stations. As currently planned, the heaters are WAY too close to the operators and the equipment. I want to warm folks - not sear them! Having the operator cycle the disconnect between 'on' and 'off' strikes me as a (forbidden words deleted) means of control. Vendor does not offer any controls.

I imagine the 'perfect' control to be a simple dial .... turn it more, you get more heat .... plus a timer to keep it from being forgotten.

Any thoughts? I'm open to anything from a readt-to-use product, to some specific component suggestions.

Thanks.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212142 12/16/13 10:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 251
W
WESTUPLACE Offline
Member
I use SSR (Solid state relays) to control the elements in large industrial dryers They can be cycled rapidly to regulate the elements controlled by a temperature controller or thermostat. Athena Controls as well as others make proportional control relays that can control the amount of current that passes. These are driven by a 4-20 ma controller. Thermocouple needed to send the temperature to a controller. Somewhat complicated for just a heater. I think a SSR with a standard thermostat would be better.

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212143 12/16/13 10:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 824
J
JoeTestingEngr Offline
Member
If there's no fan integral to it, I would want to phase control that much power in close proximity to people. Phase angle would be driven by the difference between ambient and setpoint temperatures. But surface temperature would limit the maximum phase angle. That's what I would want/build and I would use 120VAC or less for my control power.
With no phase control, I would use a 2-pole 480VAC contactor with a 24VAC coil, small 24VAC control transformer, open-on-rise thermostat for the work space, and a fixed temperature, bi-metallic temperature switch for the heater enclosure surface.
Joe

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: JoeTestingEngr] #212146 12/16/13 11:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
L
LarryC Offline
Member
Quote
With no phase control, I would use a 2-pole 480VAC contactor with a 24VAC coil, small 24VAC control transformer, open-on-rise thermostat for the work space, and a fixed temperature, bi-metallic temperature switch for the heater enclosure surface.


With no phase control, that contactor will be banging on and off like crazy! 16 KW for bench heating seems to be a bit excessive. A PID temperature controller would make more sense for moderating versus a bang-bang control scheme. If it is grossly oversized, why not operate it on 277 or 240 if available? Less output, longer cycle times.

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212147 12/16/13 11:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Neither 277 nor 240 is available. Supply is from an ungrounded 480 panel.

A smaller heater would be appropriate. Two similar instals in the plant have had issues; these things are simply being placed too close to the targets- and there's no easy way to add space.

I'd really like to give the operator a dial to turn up or down, as needed. Work stations are out of the weather (strictly speaking), yet fully exposed to outdoor temperature swings.

I'll call Athena from work tomorrow; their downloads come out in gibberish on my computer here.


Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212155 12/17/13 04:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,575
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
You basically just need a big triac dimmer (phase angle controller) but obviously listed for that use. I looked around a little but no joy.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212165 12/17/13 09:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
L
LarryC Offline
Member
Try Watlow for temperature controllers. The DIN-A-MITE A looks like 25 A at 600 VAC single phase. The DIN-A-MITE B looks like 40 A at 600 VAC single phase.

Sales critters available at 1 800 watlow2.

Not associated with any heater or controller company.

LarryC

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212166 12/17/13 10:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Looks like I might be able to do something with Watlow.

Their approach certainly sounds better than using a $3000 Variac!

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212217 12/20/13 10:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 824
J
JoeTestingEngr Offline
Member
It just seems to me that someone is making you use the wrong heater(s) for your application. My latest crazy thought would help if they were being installed in 2's. You could use a dual diode module and drive each element from opposite half cycles. So you cut your power in half per unit and not even add any odd harmonics. A scope would be the only place where you might see a tad of crossover distortion. You could still add phase control upstream.
Joe

Re: Industrial Heater Control: Need Suggestions [Re: renosteinke] #212218 12/20/13 11:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,237
HotLine1 Offline
Member
If Watlow isn't an economical solution, then perhaps finding a heater that is made to do what you intend, as opposed to the modifications.

Did anyone consider the costs of modifications, vs. buying an appropriate heater?

Reno, I know you love the challenge!!


John
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 806
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 4
Popular Topics(Views)
277,290 Are you busy
211,108 Re: Forum
198,132 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3