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#211462 - 10/15/13 10:29 PM health care facilities  
triple  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184
Wisconsin
When did redundant grounding become an NEC requirement in patient care areas?


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#211468 - 10/16/13 03:37 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Brick, NJ USA
The term is within the 1975 NEC, that's as far back as I can go.


John

#211469 - 10/16/13 09:36 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
triple  Offline
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Wisconsin
Thank you. The exam rooms in the clinic I am working on now were wired with smurf tube (I think in '86). I found it hard to believe that met the code of the time. Just to be clear, are you saying the requirement back at least to '75 was for patient care areas to use a wiring method incorporating a conduit/sheithing that doubles as a ground?


#211470 - 10/17/13 12:01 AM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Triple:

I did not read all of 517 from the '75 NEC, but the term redundant grounding is in there for sure.

To the best of my knowledge, that is how I took it on a quick read, regarding patient care areas.

What I have seen in some 'clinics' and Dr Offices is 'renovations' of 'office space' into patient care or treatment rooms; done without permits & inspections.

Someone else may have some additional info??



John

#211471 - 10/17/13 01:46 AM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
gfretwell  Online Content


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I didn't read the whole thing but I see a reference to a common bonding point in the 75 (copper bus etc) I was wondering if that was the predecessor to the redundant ground in a metal wiring method we have now.


Greg Fretwell

#211474 - 10/17/13 03:40 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
I saw the term 'redundant ground', and I also did not have the time to read thru.

There is mention of an insulated EGC, and metalic raceway/cable.



John

#211477 - 10/17/13 10:55 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
renosteinke  Offline
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You're asking the wrong question. A better question would be 'when did the concept of 'patient care areas' get expanded so?'

The whole point of the original patient care area rules was to codify what had already become standard practice in areas where explosive anesthetic gasses were used; you didn't want a static charge to build up anywhere.

As an example, an 'oral surgeon' would probably need Article 517 practices in his operating area, while a dentist would not see the need.

Since then, we've lost sight of this. We've expanded 'patient care area' practically to the parking lot, while medicine has nearly completely got away from chloroform, ether, and the other explosive gasses.


#211481 - 10/18/13 04:03 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Reno:

Other than the medical gases you mention, some which may still be used, another more important reason (IMHO) is to prevent any shock hazard to the patient.

The ever expanding use of electronic equipment in patient care areas is much more present today, then 30 years back.



John

#211528 - 10/24/13 07:45 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
triple  Offline
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Wisconsin
I am not concerned about anesthesia locations. That doesn't apply in my situation. Perhaps the code first applied only to those locations (they have their own section today) but now the Handbook describes other scenarios as well. Essentially, any electrical equipment that a patient by him/herself or though an attendee could be contacted needs redundant grounding.
Am I correct in my belief that the electrical panels feeding patient care areas, do not need such redundant grounding? In other words, can they not be fed with PVC pipe or any other non-grounding conduit?


#211530 - 10/24/13 09:38 PM Re: health care facilities [Re: triple]  
HotLine1  Offline


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Trip:
In your clinic, the answer is you are correct for the panel feeders.


John


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