ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
Al Hildenbrand - Minneapolis - obituary
by Bill Addiss - 02/03/23 07:38 PM
by renosteinke - 01/27/23 09:52 PM
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 61 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#210452 06/24/13 11:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Question :
3 sets of (480V 3 phase )600 MCM off a 1200 amp feeder OCP. to a Mcc. in Tray cable.
Ground wire in each not correctly sized for 1200 amps (3/0)
from factory stock comes (#3) Can 3/0 ground run with tray
cover it??

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:

2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Tom Offline
IMO, no. All equipment ground conductors in each cable must be full sized. Fault currents may not divide equally depending on where the fault is and this could exceed the rating of the equipment ground if not full sized. AFAIK, there is no exception to the requirement.

Last edited by Tom; 06/24/13 12:52 PM. Reason: spelling

Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
2011 NEC 250.122(F) seems to allow a single EGC in a tray...

or if under certain conditions, the tray can be the EGC...

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
292.60 2011 NEC
Cable trays SHALL be permitted to be used as Equipment grounding conductors.
Then refers you to 250.96 70-118.
Other grounds then are supplemental.
Supplemental grounds are additional grounds & are then they still required to be full size???
2011 McGraw Hills handbook page 517 states:
The last sentance of 250.122 (A) points out that metal raceways and cable armor recognized as an equipment grounding conductors: Table 122 does not apply to them.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
Where did you get the information that "Other Grounds are Supplemental?"

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,788
Likes: 14
If the tray meets the cross section requirement in table 392.60(A), you agree that this is "where continuous maintenance and supervision" and they tray is connected to the equipment at both ends with a 3/0, it is legal.
I agree supplemental grounding is just that, more than you require.

The handbook warns about assemblies of conductors may have insufficient grounding conductors when used as parallel sets.

Cable assemblies are manufactured in standard conductor size configurations, and the equipment grounding conductor in a cable is properly sized for some circuit arrangements but not necessarily for all parallel circuit arrangements. Where the cable is used in large-capacity parallel circuits, it is necessary to ensure that the equipment grounding conductor in each cable is sized as required by Table 250.122, based on the size of the overcurrent device protecting the circuit.

Each parallel set (in a raceway) shall be 250.122.
The cable tray gives you more latitude the way I read it.

Greg Fretwell
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Section 392.60(A)
Grounding and Bonding
(A) Metallic Cable Trays
. Metallic cable trays shall be
permitted to be used as equipment grounding conductors
where continuous maintenance and supervision ensure
that qualified persons service the installed cable tray
system and the cable tray complies with provisions of this section. Metallic cable trays
that support electrical conductors shall be grounded as required for conductor enclosures
in accordance with 250.96 and Part IV of Article 250. Metal cable tray containing only
non-power conductors shall be electrically continuous, through approved connections or
the use of a bonding jumper not smaller than a 10 AWG.
Informational Note: Examples of non-power conductors include nonconductive optical fiber
cables and Class 2 and Class 3 Remote Control Signaling and Power Limited Circuits.
Analysis of Change:
Section 392.60 (392.7(A), 2011 NEC was revised to require the metal cable tray systems
to be bonded when used with non-power conductors.

250.96 (A) Bonding other Enclosures.
Metal raceways ,Cable trays, Cable Armor, Cable sheath ,Enclosers, Frames, Fittings and other metal non-current carrying parts that serve as Equipment grounding conductors with or without the use of Supplementary grounding conductors Shall be bonded where necessary .

The (Tray or RMC) or anything approved by 250.118 by itself
that can carry the fault current well do the trick.
So is anything else Supplementay.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
So...are you going to run a separate equipment grounding conductor or use the tray?

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Both / Ground wire attached to side of tray probably 4/0 with listed & labeled ground clamps & all conduits coming off the tray attached to it. All non contentious tray sections bonded together via 4/0 also.
Always interested in other electricians take on things! Not everything in the Code is clear to me anyway!

Link Copied to Clipboard

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Joe Tedesco
Joe Tedesco
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Posts: 2,749
Joined: October 2000
Top Posters(30 Days)
triple 3
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
303,175 Are you busy
232,174 Re: Forum
216,915 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5