ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by HotLine1. 06/13/18 01:50 PM
GE Lighting Recalls LED Tube Lamps
by Admin. 06/12/18 09:32 PM
Ketra Recalls Recessed Downlights
by Admin. 06/12/18 09:17 PM
diazed fuses
by Texas_Ranger. 06/11/18 07:31 AM
soda can fuse from UK, facebook
by wa2ise. 06/06/18 11:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 13 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Re: Pool panel #210145
05/29/13 11:28 PM
05/29/13 11:28 PM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I have a question, You have an new in ground pool and a new pool cabana. Instead of running a 100 amp sub panel feeder to the cabana, they run it to the pool filter panel. Then they run a 60 amp feeder into the pool cabana. The Cabana has a sub panel with 7 breakers. The main breaker for the cabana is just outside in the pool filter panel. Does the cabana need a main breaker?

Most separate building services would say yes unless there is just 1 branch circuit. There is a main 2 pole 60 amp but instead of it being in the cabana, it is just outside in the pool filter panel.

Any thoughts? Is it safe? Does it meet code?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210149
05/30/13 12:35 AM
05/30/13 12:35 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,227
Estero,Fl,usa
How far is the disconnect from the point of entry to the cabana?

Quote
The disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors.


Labeling may be an issue too.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210156
05/30/13 09:34 AM
05/30/13 09:34 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,972
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
IMHO, I do not see an issue. A breaker lock-out for the CB that feeds the cabana, proper marking, and as Greg said, close proximity.



John
Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210157
05/30/13 09:44 AM
05/30/13 09:44 AM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Greg, John,

The pool panel is just outside the back of the pool cabana. There is a storage area under the cabana where the sub panel for the cabana is located. A breaker lock would also service the purpose, however if you read the code, you are "Suppose" to have a main inside a separate building. This is another spot in the code, where you actually have to see the install in order to make the right call.

For the record, I think that most EC's would have run the feeder to the cabana, then out to the pool panel, not the other way around.

Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210158
05/30/13 10:53 AM
05/30/13 10:53 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,972
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:

"This is another spot in the code, where you actually have to see the install in order to make the right call.

For the record, I think that most EC's would have run the feeder to the cabana, then out to the pool panel, not the other way around."

True words!!


John
Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210171
05/31/13 07:57 PM
05/31/13 07:57 PM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
OK, lets change up the situation a little bit. If the panel in the cabana has under 6 breakers, the main can be outside. OK, However what if the cabana has more than 6 circuit breakers? Would you need a main now? (6 operating handle rule?)

Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210172
05/31/13 07:59 PM
05/31/13 07:59 PM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I just had another thought, What about a detached garage and a sub panel. It needs a main if it has more than 6 breakers in the panel, or does it always need a main breaker?

Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210180
06/01/13 12:22 PM
06/01/13 12:22 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,227
Estero,Fl,usa
The NEC has looked at this differently over the years.
Originally there was the 6 handle rule, then they started talking about "lighting and appliance panelboards" and imposed a 2 breaker rule on them. In 2008 they removed that and we are back to 6 handles in most situations. You still need a main breaker (protected by an overcurrent protective device having a rating not greater than that of the panelboard) but 408.36 says it can be anywhere in the supply like the start of the feeder in the originating building.
At least that is how I read it


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210183
06/01/13 02:39 PM
06/01/13 02:39 PM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
So now if there is a panel in a garage and there are more than 6 handles, it would require a main breaker. Is that correct?

You know the code making panels are constantly changing rules back and forth, I think that they just want to justify there existent sometimes. smile

Re: Pool panel [Re: harold endean] #210185
06/01/13 04:35 PM
06/01/13 04:35 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,972
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
My take is as Greg stated above. The feeder requires OCP at the source.

A 'Main' may be installed within the subpanel, but it is not required. (A MLO panel is OK)


John
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
TOOL_5150
TOOL_5150
Bay Area
Posts: 61
Joined: August 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 5
Popular Topics(Views)
247,574 Are you busy
184,904 Re: Forum
174,130 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.050s Queries: 17 (0.006s) Memory: 1.0259 MB (Peak: 1.2081 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-06-18 01:45:01 UTC