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saw a fake Square D QO breaker today #207360
10/20/12 12:23 AM
10/20/12 12:23 AM
W
wa2ise  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 787
Oradell NJ USA
They had a convention at work today, about trademarks and counterfeit products. And saw an example of a fake Square D breaker. It looked quite authentic, even with the small inspection/UL stickers. But who knows what was inside it... eek

There were also a few products that were obviously bad, like an extension cord with way too thin wire. No counterfeiting a quality name brand, just a bad no-name product, with a bogus UL seal of approval.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207361
10/20/12 01:03 PM
10/20/12 01:03 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,290
Estero,Fl,usa
I doubt they really wanted to cut that breaker open because I bet it looked pretty much identical inside too.

I often wonder how many of these products get made on the same Asian assembly line, just not with the licensing fees attached. I do assume they will cut corners on testing and quality control.


Greg Fretwell
Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207362
10/20/12 02:08 PM
10/20/12 02:08 PM
W
wa2ise  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 787
Oradell NJ USA
That's the "gray market". Not as worrisome as a totally bogus counterfeit, but as you point out, they probably skipped the testing.

Doesn't Square D make their stuff in their own factories?

Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207363
10/20/12 03:28 PM
10/20/12 03:28 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,290
Estero,Fl,usa
Doesn't everything come from Mexico or Asia these days?


Greg Fretwell
Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207367
10/20/12 09:02 PM
10/20/12 09:02 PM
N
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
Hopefully there was more inside than just a switch, like these lovely Chinese imports:

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/9428/infopro.whatsnew.latest/Counterfeiting-Alert.html

Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207368
10/20/12 09:19 PM
10/20/12 09:19 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Square D does not distinguish between actual counterfeits, and genuine Square D products that were intended for distribution outside the USA, then imported by someone outside of the 'official' Square D distribution system.

Square D is using Copyright / Trademark law to enforce their marketing scheme.

The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear a case (Kertsaeng vs. John Wiley & Sons) on this exact point.

Personally, I have no issues with a breaker made under Square D supervision, listed by UL, but brought to me through some source besides the 'official' Square D dealer in my area.

Case in point: A Square D panel readily available from the Square D distributor in Nevada for $50 was quoted to me by the Arkansas dealer at $800. For a 10-space, Homeline panel, that's a bit much. I obtained the panel ... for $50, and had it shipped here.

I have set a quarter aside for Square D ... should they want to call someone who cares.

Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207369
10/20/12 09:31 PM
10/20/12 09:31 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,290
Estero,Fl,usa
If your local dealer is charging $800 for a garden variety Homeline panel I would talk to Square D about it.


Greg Fretwell
Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: gfretwell] #207372
10/21/12 02:53 PM
10/21/12 02:53 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Panel was most certainly a 'garden variety' panel. It's in their book, and on their web site- and there's nothing 'spacial' about it. Not appearing in the dealers 'list,' the dealer had to call Square D and apply his multiplier to the price provided by Square D. The dealer told me up front that this would happen. If the item isn't on his 'list,' the price is absurd.

For reasons known alone to Square D, it appears that they simply don't want to sell this panel here. Panel complies with local PoCo and NEC requirements.

My point is that there are more than a few quirks in Square D's marketing plan. You can't tell Square D that, though ... they've had the best minds develop their system, so any perceived flaws are either your fault, or there ought to be a law ... The end result is that folks will find ways around the 'rules.'

Now, should Square D wish to hear the specifics, I'll be happy to talk to them. I'll be happy to tell them the name of the local dealer and identify the specific panel. I'll even point out that the home centers have it on their web sites, but are not able to get it through their distribution system. I'm not about to tell them too much about my sources; past experience with Square D shows that their primary efforts will be to close down this alternative source. Suffice it to say that my source was a large, established supply chain that is a stocking distributor of Square D.

But I wander ...

My real point is that Square D has 'cried wolf' so many times I really don't care any more. Maybe it's not the shepherd crying out the alarm - but a stock thief wishing to divert attention from himself.



Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: NJwirenut] #207373
10/21/12 02:57 PM
10/21/12 02:57 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just a switch?

How do we know that the 'test' button on AFCI's isn't just a switch? Square D has fought tooth and nail any manner of independent test equipment.

It turns out that not even UL subjects these to any sort of test that involves an arc between copper wires.

Instead, Square D cries "proprietary," then expects the code panels to provide them with a market.

Re: saw a fake Square D QO breaker today [Re: wa2ise] #207374
10/21/12 09:58 PM
10/21/12 09:58 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,290
Estero,Fl,usa
I am pretty far from the supply chain but my wife buys everything for her community (a weird permitting thing) and that just sounds silly. Any reasonable supply house will try to get close to the internet price. Everyone has Google these days.


Greg Fretwell

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