ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
FEMA height and electrical equiment.,
by HotLine1. 04/20/18 08:49 AM
Inspections and Testing
by HotLine1. 04/20/18 08:46 AM
This anti-theist is priceless!!!
by LongRunner. 04/19/18 04:02 PM
Recall notice: Square D Services Switches
by gfretwell. 04/18/18 01:24 PM
Big Square D service switch Recall
by sparkyinak. 04/18/18 12:30 AM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 53 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Fire source! #206347
06/17/12 09:45 PM
06/17/12 09:45 PM
HotLine1  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,948
Brick, NJ USA
This was the cause. Power strip, one to three adaptors, zip cord extension cords...

[Linked Image]


John
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206350
06/18/12 02:02 AM
06/18/12 02:02 AM
L
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
What were the loads plugged into this?

Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206353
06/18/12 03:29 PM
06/18/12 03:29 PM
HotLine1  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,948
Brick, NJ USA
I only saw a fish tank (aquarium), but there had to be other items. Damage: scorched wall; fish tank; 4' hole in ceiling by FD; water/smoke. No visable damage to the receptacle this was plugged into.



John
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206354
06/18/12 05:59 PM
06/18/12 05:59 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,197
Estero,Fl,usa
This is a nice one

[Linked Image]


Greg Fretwell
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206355
06/18/12 07:21 PM
06/18/12 07:21 PM
HotLine1  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,948
Brick, NJ USA
That's a classic!!


John
Re: Fire source! [Re: gfretwell] #206359
06/19/12 02:01 AM
06/19/12 02:01 AM
L
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
Let me guess.

Continental US.

Public area. Probably flea market.

Powering up "temporary" food vendors.

How close am I?

Re: Fire source! [Re: LarryC] #206360
06/19/12 04:39 AM
06/19/12 04:39 AM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,331
Alaska
Kinda look like what I grew up in... I wonder the place I grew up predisposition me be a sparky?


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206431
07/01/12 11:34 PM
07/01/12 11:34 PM
bavmar  Offline
New Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
Virginia Beach VA
Power strips typically contain MOVs (metal oxide varistors) for surge suppression. When an MOV ages, its trigger voltage can drop below the peak to peak line voltage, causing it to draw current and heat up. If the power strip has a plastic housing, the burning MOV can set the plastic on fire.

Another bad practice is the "3 way" surge configuration that places MOVs line-to-neutral, line-to-ground and neutral-to-ground. This is strictly for marketing to the dumb masses who think that more is always better. Dumping surge current into the protective ground pulls it off of ground potential. Since this is the zero volt reference for sensitive electronic equipment, bad things can happen (like fried serial ports).

Typically, the neutral-to-ground MOV has an extremely low trigger voltage, so that a loss of neutral will cause it to try to pass the full circuit load current to ground. Obviously, it then burns up.

I worked in an office with modular furniture. Some amateur electricians did not get the wiring harness connectors securely locked together. Over time, they would separate, and when the neutral connection was broken, power strips would melt all over the place. Disassembly revealed it was always caused by a burned neutral-to-ground MOV. One time, a power strip actually broke out in flames. Someone hit it with a fire extinguisher before we got to find out if the sprinkler system worked.

In conclusion, I will bet dollars to donuts that the fire was caused by an MOV, not an overload. Most power strips have a resettable circuit breaker to protect against overload.

BTW, if you want serious surge suppression, put a UL-approved surge suppressor on the service entrance and look at zerosurge.com for point of use protection. They are one of the few companies that make surge suppressors that actually work. No, I am not affiliated in any way with this company.

Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #206444
07/02/12 10:09 PM
07/02/12 10:09 PM
HotLine1  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,948
Brick, NJ USA
Bavmar:

Welcome to ECN, and thanks fo te input.

Last I heard from the FD was 'inproper use of extension cords, adapters, & power strip' was the cause.


John
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207693
11/20/12 03:02 AM
11/20/12 03:02 AM
Lostazhell  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
A lot of aquarium equipment will state in the instructions not to use a power strip. I've witnessed the reason why at a service call... Condensate will tend to gather on the power cords sometimes and roll down the wire and into the power strip or extension cord. I think the mfr's thinking was that plugging directly into the wall outlet will keep a drip loop in the wire...

Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207757
11/24/12 04:30 PM
11/24/12 04:30 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Here's a pic of my modest aquarium, and it's attendant:

[Linked Image]

Now, that aquarium has a light, a pump, a heater, and a UV sterilizing light. That's four plugs. Most aquariums also have an air pump (I don't need one because of that 'quite waterfall' you see).

It's kind of hard to put five plugs into a duplex receptacle. Most folks are not about to rip the walls apart to install additional receptacles- especially if they're renting. With 'starter' aquariums around $20, you can be sure plenty of renters have them.

My desk has 10 receptacles, and there have been times where every one was in use. Here's the count of current things plugged in:
Computer: 3 + printer = 4
Modem & router: 2 (located elsewhere)
Desk lamps: 2
Paper shredder: 1
Under desk heaters: 2 (becomes 1 fan in summer.
Cell phone charger: 1

Lucky for me I still use the old-fashioned manual pencil sharpener and stapler.

Face it: Power strips are here to stay.

Plus .... let's look at that desk again. 4 or 5 plugs under the desk, 4-5 above the desk. That's a situation just begging for two power strips ... meaning, regardless of what the "White book" says, you'll see the things daisy chained.

There are various experts' and parts of the listing standards that want to obstruct the use of power strips. They're not only tilting at windmills, they're also preventing QUALITY strips from being made. They've set their doctrine against the customers' wishes.

There are countless examples of what the result is when that happens: Doctrine fails, and bad things happen because of attempts to impose the doctrine. "Prohibition" is probably the grandest of such failed experiments.
Doctrine has to change.




Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207760
11/25/12 11:42 AM
11/25/12 11:42 AM
HotLine1  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,948
Brick, NJ USA
Reno:
Just to back up a little. My OP was not meant to trash power strips. My intent was/is to 'define' the fire cause.

Inproper use of electrical equipment, like zip cord extension cords, or power strips, usually result in the 'cause' being marked off as 'Electrical'. That's my intent!


John
Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207782
11/26/12 03:17 PM
11/26/12 03:17 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
You are correct. Lots of bad things happen when stuff is mis-used.

Frankly, no one is helped when a fire is called 'electrical' when 'abuse' or 'stupidity' are the real causes.

I'd like to see better, more substantial power strips. I'd like to see 'better' cord use. Yet, too often we find our 'rules' prevent us from doing these things 'better.'

There's also a mindset that considers all 'extension cords' the same - that treats a 4-wire #8 SO cord the same as a #18 zip cord, that treats a 3-ft cord for the desk the same as a 90-ft. cord that snakes through the house.

There's a 'snob factor' that sneers ar Wiremold ... which results in cords being used everywhere, forever.

It's particularly annoying when folks take pride in their abilities to pervert logic.

Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207929
12/09/12 06:24 AM
12/09/12 06:24 AM
Lostazhell  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
I have a Plugmold power strip I use at my nightstand for an alarm clock and a couple chargers. Under my desk is an APC UPS with a power strip from the back up side and one from the just surge suppressed side. 4 external drives, modem, router, stereo, 40" LED screen and a 22" LED screen, server unit, magicjack, cordless phone charger, X-Box 360... In all, there's around 900 watts if I run it all at once. I just needed more physical outlets.

Re: Fire source! [Re: HotLine1] #207930
12/09/12 06:28 AM
12/09/12 06:28 AM
Lostazhell  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...


There's always someone that knows enough to get into trouble...

[Linked Image]

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
MarkC10
MarkC10
CA, Inland Empire
Posts: 43
Joined: September 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
245,853 Are you busy
182,894 Re: Forum
172,731 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.040s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 1.0716 MB (Peak: 1.2903 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-20 18:35:53 UTC