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Joined: Jan 2004
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I could use some opinions on this inspection. Contractor is asked to provide power for an igniter for a "Fire Bowl" located on the coping of an in ground pool. The igniter is 24v. and my feeling is that even tho he bonds the metal parts, and provides GFCI protection for the xformer feeding the igniter he is not permitted to do this because of 680.22 (E). I think the "Fire Bowl" igniter will be within the 10' range. Hope this link work. www.grandeffectsinc.com if it doesn't, copy it into your browser and take a look at this produce. It is Listed (I think) but I haven't gotten any response to my email.


George Little
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
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I think you are right to be concerned. That is not really even 24v, it is thousands of volts at the sparker.

Unless they can come up with some kind of NRTL listing that says it is safe next to a pool, it is a violation.

The fire bowl next that negative edge pool overlooking the ocean is cool tho wink I guess if you are that rich you can buy a variance


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
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George:
I agree with Greg, there are concerns.
Interesting to see IF there is any NRTL info.



John
Joined: Jan 2005
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I'm not too worried. There may be 'thousands of volts,' but only for a microsecond, and virtually no amps. It's not a Jacobs' ladder, and it's not 'on' all the time.

Heck, there's probably more electricity made by the thermocouple / thermopile that stops the gas flow if the flame goes out.

Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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We are still left with the code we have to enforce. George actually cited the 24v.

I still bet taking a shot from the igniter on a wet person is going to be similar to a taser.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jun 2004
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The question must be: how can/ could a person ever touch the ignition components when it's triggered?

Such a feat would seem impossible.


Tesla
Joined: Jan 2004
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Tesla, I guess we could say that of all of the things that are not allowed in the 10' area of the pool. The potential for electrocution is unlikely but the tingle voltage could trigger problems around a pool and just like a phone or other items the 24v. associated with the Fire Bowl should not be permitted per the code.


George Little
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My wife the builder put an interesting spin on this. Is the igniter transformer cord and plug connected? If so, you are allowed a 120v receptacle 6' away. How close to the edge is the actual igniter?

She said the government is making her put a 120v pool lift right in the pool. How is that any safer?


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2005
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That's a good point .... there IS that new rule that all 'community' pools be ADA (read: wheelchair) accessible by this summer.

(How long before someone takes a powered chair into the pool?)

I think we have bigger things to worry about than a pretty flame.

Another aside: can't wait to see the take the 'energy' codes have on these flames laugh

Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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The significant difference is the lifts are listed. If the fire pot maker has a listing for being next to the pool this is a done deal.
I agree these things are not environmentally friendly but that is not what we do for a living. wink


Greg Fretwell
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