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Joined: Jul 2004
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I am seeing a lot more outside disconnects these days. That may become the industry standard some day. Right now the only general requirement for one is on a piling house where the main panel is on the 2d floor and the meter base is on the "open" grade level. They know that area under the house will be enclosed making that "outside" SE cable "inside".


Greg Fretwell
Joined: May 2011
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Sorry to Hijack this thread.....

Here in the UK, there is limit of 2m between the output side of the meter & the breaker panel. If you cant meet this requirement then you need to provide overcurrent protection before the start of the run (ie at the meter) to the breaker panel. Is there no similar regulation in the NEC?

Joined: Apr 2002
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Adrian:
No there is no length dimensions within the NEC. It has been this way, and perhaps someday, it may include a dimension.

We use..."closest to the point of entry" which leaves the decission to the inspector.



John
Joined: Jan 2005
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My brother's house has unprotected running from meter to ground, and then across under the 2-car garage pad to the basement, then about 1 foot down to the MCB panel. I don't know how far under the pad it is. The pad mount transformer is about 25 feet away, 100 kVA, 2.75%, shared with 2 other houses. Wire sizes unknown. A fault under the garage could be interesting.


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Quote
My brother's house has unprotected running from meter to ground, and then across under the 2-car garage pad to the basement, then about 1 foot down to the MCB panel.


That is still "outside" as far as the NEC is concerned.
In fact we got around an unprotected SE to a fire pump controller once by forming up a trough, dropping a 2" rigid conduit in it and pouring it solid with concrete so it was 2" in from all directions.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jul 2007
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One of the AHJs in my area finally put a distance of 6 feet as a limit he would allow an unprotected run inside a house. Until I pressed him for this number his answer was always "a reasonable distance". I always install a disconnect(s) on the outside, I have heard too many firefighters say how nice it is to be able to shut off power without having a meter base wide open with live parts inside. They might have to come to my house one day, so I try to be nice to them.


Jimmy

Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid
Joined: Jun 2006
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In Canada the CEC does not allow the OCP to be outdoors (ammended in 2012 code when adopted) and the rule for how far the service wires can go into the building is as close as practicable. That translates differently depending on where you work. I look at it like this if i can find a place that makes the service wires shorter then the panel must be located there. Some jurisdictions say as close as feesible but no further than 5 feet. This of course gets translated to anywhere within 5 feet even if a closer location was easy to do.

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That is strange. How do you deal with things like lift stations and fair grounds if OCP is not allowed outside?



Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
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Mikesh said..."That translates differently depending on where you work."

That sounds like we have a similar situation in some areas here also.

Not being able to install a MOCP on the exterior sounds like a real bad 'rule' in quite a few instances.




John
Joined: Jan 2005
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This "loophole" has been in the code forever. Word games aside, I just cannot make the case for not having an OCPD, or at least a disconnect, on a circuit. It just seems extremely obvious that you would want a way to turn things 'off.'

Everyone puts their socks on before their shoes- yet there is no law saying you must. It' just one of those 'obvious' things. I would place 'have a disconnect' in this same category. I just can't imagine not having one.

Well, that's not correct. I can imagine ... being first introduced to the trade in Chicago, it was common to have just a meter base on the outside of the house. The catch was that the wires then went into a rigid nipple, straight through the brick wall, and directly into a panel on the opposite face of the wall. Nobody could hang a picture on that unprotected bit of wire without passing through the panel itself.

The arrangement in the pictures - up the wall, across the room, down the wall- and all of it just under the drywall - just offends every instinct of mine.

I'm delighted that this thread has kicked off the discussion. Maybe it IS time for the NEC to address the issue.

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