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#202846 - 08/30/11 05:23 PM How to size and feed commercial panel  
bwise121  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
I'm going to install a 4 meter pack panel on a 4 plex apartment building. For the house meter the AHJ says I have to install a commercial panel next to the 4 pack and feed it off of the meter side. He said he won't accept a 5 packer. I'm not sure why.

The 4 meter pack panel is rated at 400 amps. How do I size the feeder from it to the house panel?


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#202847 - 08/30/11 05:51 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
FWIW, I think you should have a re-run of the conversation you had with the AHJ.

What you describe above will not only get you a red sticker, you would also be subject to theft of services. (Non-metered tap)



John

#202848 - 08/30/11 06:52 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
bwise121  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
Sacramento, CA USA
The commercial panel would have it's own meter/main.

But yea, another conversation with AHJ is a good idea.


#202851 - 08/30/11 11:10 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
You need to get in touch with either PG&E -- their Green Book --- or SMUD or Roseville Electric.

All are EUSERC conforming utilities.

ONLY EUSERC approved equipment will be tolerated.

You need to touch base with the Poco -- the AHJ is almost irrelevant.

A 5 pack would permit you to power up a 'house panel.' -- I.e. Landlord's panel.

It's a loser as far as the Poco goes.

You've been talking to the wrong guy. -- You HAVE to get in touch with the Poco.

You can meet every AHJ issue -- and then fail your Poco standards -- and never get any power.

The Poco does not take orders from the AHJ, period.

Go to the EUSERC site -- Bing is your friend.



Tesla

#202853 - 08/30/11 11:15 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
Tesla:

Thanks for the California 'way'. It's a little different here on the east side.



John

#202862 - 08/31/11 12:02 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: HotLine1]  
Vindiceptor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 98
San Diego
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Tesla:

Thanks for the California 'way'. It's a little different here on the east side.



That's the NorCal way, SoCal is quite a bit different, but the AHJ does NOT have any say on whether you use a 5-pack or a separate house/meter panel.

Either way would work, but the POCO makes the final decision on what's acceptable and PG&E does have a design guide for this issue.

I have never heard the acronym EUSERC used within SCE or SDG&E territory.

Last edited by Vindiceptor; 08/31/11 12:04 PM.

#202871 - 08/31/11 06:05 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Vindi

Google it.

SCE founded it... with PG&E joining in next -- back in the 1945 era.

ALL of the western utilities are now EUSERC members:
SCE
PG&E
SMUD
SDG&E
Roseville Electric
APS

EUSERC is the controlling entity WRT all Service Equipment -- that's its ambit.

When you thumb through Sq D's catalog EUSERC conformance will be noted whenever it applies. So, western ECs simply cross off all of the equipment not so conforming -- it will be rejected out of hand.

That is why notions proffered by eastern electricians inre Services must be discarded -- since EUSERC standards will never be the low cost approach. We're not allowed to gin up clever solutions like the rest of the country.

Beyond that, there are many, many restrictions placed upon residential properties -- like requiring HOs to trench in heavy-ups -- the existing OH drop is not permitted to scale up. The local jurisdiction wants them all to move underground. These restrictions are ten-a-penny in zoning crazed California.

One example: a commercial job I built required a set of utility pull boxes -- joined by PVC -- stubbed to the property limits -- even though the existing power lines were in place -- above on poles.

The task was brutally difficult due to a personal war with SMUD initiated by my PM and hardpan so tough it defeated power equipment! ( Think concrete )



Tesla

#202873 - 08/31/11 06:15 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,123
Estero,Fl,usa
If this tread is going to shift to EUSERC, maybe we should just start another thread about that?
It does seem to be an interesting thing but I doubt we easterners know much about it.


Greg Fretwell

#202874 - 08/31/11 06:16 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: Tesla]  
Vindiceptor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 98
San Diego
I didn't say I didn't know what it was, just that no one down here throws the acronym around, it isn't necessary since the vendor must provide compliant gear within the territory they're serving.


Last edited by Vindiceptor; 08/31/11 06:19 PM.

#202881 - 08/31/11 11:26 PM Re: How to size and feed commercial panel [Re: bwise121]  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
Quote

I have never heard the acronym EUSERC used within SCE or SDG&E territory.


It is the opposite for me...
ALL Service Equipment shall be EUSERC Listed.
More precise, Approved Service Equipment shall be from a list of approved EUSERC Drawings.

This is standard with:

SCE,
SDG&E,
LADWP,
APU (Anaheim Public Utilities),
PG&E,
Burbank W&P (Water & Power),
Glendale W&P,
Pasadena W&P,
etc.

Vendors typically indicate the PoCo + EUSERC + Drawing Numbers... i.e.: SCE - EUSERC Drawing No. 325

-- Scott


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

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