ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Al Hildenbrand - Minneapolis - obituary
by bcpappas - 02/02/23 08:01 PM
Violation?
by renosteinke - 01/27/23 09:52 PM
Does NEC 551.71 (F) apply to dwellings?
by BigB - 01/20/23 10:46 AM
Power submeter connections
by HotLine1 - 01/19/23 09:09 AM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
1 members (mbhydro), 21 guests, and 11 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
What kind of boxes do you use for fixtures?
Wall mounted or ceiling mounted.
Do you use round, octagon, etc and Metal or plastic?

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
I actually ran into trouble installing (old work) wall sconces. I cut the hole for a round old work box, but the round sconce base didn't completely cover the flange on the round old work box. I had to install rectangular box and patch the remaining holes on each side. Luckily, no wall paper.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
I'm still experimenting, my last effort was 3/4" pancakes with a shim behind to match the 5/4" blocking of outside wall lighting.

I entered the wire thru the clamp ko , so that the box could be unscrewed from the wall and rotated slightly to accomodate siding situations.

plastic is fast, but metal has it's attributes.

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 13
V
Vin Offline
Member
For fixtures I prefer metal in finished ceilings. Outdoors on siding, I prefer plastic Arlingtons old work. Looks neater.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
G
Member

plastic is fast, but metal has it's attributes.


I had a bad experience a few years back with a Carlon nail-on round box for a ceiling fixture.

After the rough-in the customer decided that they wanted a chandelier. Since the fixture was not particularly heavy we hung it from the plastic box.

About a year later we were called out to the house.....the fixture was laying in the middle of the dining room table! While replacing the box I noticed that the plastic was very brittle, unlike a typical new plastic box. No signs of high heat or other problems.

Now, if there's any chance for a large fixture. I use metal at rough-in time.

GJ

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
GJ,

I'm with you on that! Any rooms or Foyers that may get a heavy fixture would get a metal box or a Fan-type box/support.

Sparky,

I too like the pancakes as they can be cut into the siding afterwards when fixtures are available and final positioning can be determined.

Question:
are you technically allowed to hang a fixture off of a 3 x 2 Device Box?

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Addiss:
GJ,

I'm with you on that! Any rooms or Foyers that may get a heavy fixture would get a metal box or a Fan-type box/support.

Sparky,

I too like the pancakes as they can be cut into the siding afterwards when fixtures are available and final positioning can be determined.

Question:
are you technically allowed to hang a fixture off of a 3 x 2 Device Box?
I know that you'd be relying on#6 screws, instead of #8s. I wouldn't do it on a ceiling, but as I said above, I had to do it to bail me out of a wall sconce problem once.

[Linked Image]
Bill

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
Member
Quote
Question:
are you technically allowed to hang a fixture off of a 3 x 2 Device Box?


I was getting ready to ask that myself...

I often wondered if "ceiling" boxes were allowed on the wall, and/or if device boxes were allowed to have (sconce) lights, (code loop?) My supplier lists round PVC nail-ons as "ceiling" boxes, but I don't know if they're saying that for their own purpose, or have extracted it from the product description...

I use adjustable bar hangers and octagonal boxes for vanity lights (I like the adjustability for lining up with the vanity CL), although the bar hangers are called "ceiling bar hangers" according to the supplier description, once again...

Aren't boxes supposed to have at least two points of attachment? Bar hangers only attach at one point...

(My NEC is in the truck, 175' away at the bottom of the hill at the end of my driveway... gimme a break!) [Linked Image]

I've used device type mason boxes in brick for lights, to avoid having to special order octagonal mason boxes.

As far as device boxes, would tapping the mounting tabs out to 8x32 make a difference?


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
'66

If you notice, device boxes use 6/32s and Fixture boxes use 8/32s.

Are 8/32s considered necessary for fixture support somewhere? I think we've all used device boxes for support of wall fixtures at one time or another. Personally, I wish that all fixtures had a common shape and size mounting base, but that's never going to happen. Especially in the land of Interior Decorators. Did you ever use those 1 x 3 Boxes?

Bill


Bill
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
UL White Book, under "Metallic Outlet Boxes".
[quote]Fixture Support. A box, with or without bracket or bar hanger intended for the support of a fixture is provided with a marking "FOR FIXTURE SUPPORT" on the carton to indicate that the box is for fixture support. Metallic device boxes and device plaster rings have not been investigated for the support of a ceiling fixture unless marked to indicate such use. Metallic device boxes or a metallic device boxes intented to be installed in an existing structure have ben investigated for teh support of fixtures, smoke detector, carbon monoxide detectors weighing not more than 15 lb.[/b]
The same wording using the word nonmetallic in place of metallic appears in under the heading "Nonmetallic Outlet Boxes".
It appears to me that unmarked device boxes are not suitable for ceiling fixtures, but can be used for wall fixtures less than 15 pounds.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Radar
Radar
Los Angeles
Posts: 349
Joined: April 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 4
triple 3
Popular Topics(Views)
303,012 Are you busy
232,123 Re: Forum
216,775 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5