ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Questioning the electrical norms
by Texas_Ranger - 09/22/20 09:33 AM
Smoke & mirrors?
by HotLine1 - 09/21/20 03:42 PM
Pool Lights?
by Papa - 09/18/20 05:26 PM
Ever been afflicted by Gout?
by mbhydro - 09/15/20 05:50 PM
120/208 gives 240? please clarify
by NORCAL - 09/13/20 01:08 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 8 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Pools are not my strong point. #201504 06/05/11 06:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 329
S
Steve Miller Offline OP
Member
My neighbor is getting a permanent above ground pool and yours truly gets to run the power. No heater. The only thing it needs is a generic 120V GFI for the pump/filter unit (which draws 7 amps, has a 3' cord and straight blade plug). The pool guy wants a post with the GFI 5' from the pool so he doesn't have to run longer pipes. I'm telling him no way, a disconnect can be 5' but if there is a recep involved for the the pump/filter (with a straight blade plug) the recep must be 10' (680-22A1). He says "That's what we always do". To which I responded "You're always wrong". (We're on 2008 here). Am I missing something or is he full of it?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201505 06/05/11 07:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,210
HotLine1 Online Content
Member
Cut to the skinny, above ground pools require a 3' cord, #12 EGC, nad a twistlock receptacle, protected by a GFI breaker or deadfront. Location not less then 6' from pool as long as the preceeding are met. A general purpose GFI protected receptacle (in addition to) must be 10' minimum, and 20' maximum from pool.

Don't forget 680.26 bonding; eq. 'band' approx 18" around pool perimeter, bonded to frame at 4 equal locations, bond the filter motor and the pool water via a skimmer approved device. Bond is #8 solid, bare copper.

Refer to Article 680 for full code language.



John
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201507 06/05/11 07:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,526
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
*680.23(A) changed

Quote
(3) Dwelling Unit(s). Where a permanently installed pool is installed at a dwelling unit(s), no fewer than one 125-volt, 15- or 20-ampere receptacle on a general-purpose branch circuit shall be located not less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from, and not more than 6.0 m (20 ft) from, the inside wall of the pool. This receptacle shall be located not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 6 in.) above the floor, platform, or grade level serving the pool.


I suppose if you piped the pump out 3 feet and used your 3' cord it could plug into this receptacle with a 5-15.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201508 06/05/11 09:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 329
S
Steve Miller Offline OP
Member
All the bonding is done by the factory, that's not an issue. The twist lok is an option, not a requirement and as you say, that only makes it 6'. My issue is that he insists that 5' is legal for the factory plug and I can find no possible way to make 5' legal for a plug connected pump. Am I missing some exception that makes 5' a legal distance for a plug connected pump? (The convenience recep is also not a prob, we already have one 15' from where the pool will end). This old house has a fuse box, not breakers. That makes the twist lok dependant on a dead head GFI (since we can't install a GFI breaker) which we really don't wanna do. I'm trying to get the pump unit piped to meet the 10' requirement. I guess what annoys me most is that he insists he "always does this". We're in WV where there are no AHJ inspectors. We have to call an "approved" inspector to come approve it. If he "always does this", what does that say about these independant inspectors?

Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201510 06/05/11 09:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Obsaleet Offline
Member
Contact AHJ. I have done this a couple of ways. Seems the Manufacturer's go the most cost effective way possible. I have never had to put a twistlok in but I did have to put the receptacle 6' from the pool. Which means the motor must be within 3' for the cord to reach.

Ob


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201511 06/05/11 10:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,210
HotLine1 Online Content
Member
Steve:

You said.."All the bonding is done by the factory, that's not an issue"

Please explain how all the bonding is done at the factory??



John
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201512 06/05/11 11:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,526
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
The code got whacky in 2008. If you call the receptacle "for the circulation and sanitation equipment" it needs to be a single twist lock (presumably so you can't plug anything else in) but you can put a regular 5-15 duplex in the same 4" box and call it a general use receptacle (that used to have to be 10' away). It sounds like the guys who wrote 680.23(A)(1) did not get the word from the guy who rewrote 680.23(A)(2).

As for the bonding, yes the factory provides a lug to bond the pool shell and perhaps the ladder to the pump but you still need to bond the perimeter surface. That is what John is talking about.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pools are not my strong point. [Re: Steve Miller] #201513 06/06/11 08:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 329
S
Steve Miller Offline OP
Member
Ya'll are correct, bad choice of words on my part. I should have said "the factory provides for all the bonding connections". The factory does not bond anything, they merely provide the lugs at the connection points: I run the #8 between all of them. Sorry about that, I was merely trying to make that a non issue as far as my work goes.


Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Scott35
Scott35
Anaheim, CA. USA
Posts: 2,721
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 8
NORCAL 3
Popular Topics(Views)
269,983 Are you busy
204,393 Re: Forum
192,611 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3