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Re:Roof top receptacles #200908 04/27/11 08:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
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harold endean Offline OP
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Some one asked me a question about when you install a roof top HVAC system and there are weatherproof receptacles installed within 25' of the unit. Say this install is on a large commercial building. The first unit from tenant A is next to tenant B's unit. Tenant A has a WP recpt. within 25'all is OK. Does tenant B need a receptacle within 25'? Will tenant A's fullfill the requirement?

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Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200910 04/27/11 08:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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HotLine1 Offline
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Harold:
Yes, 'B' will need one. IF tenent 'A' becomes vacant, with power terminated, then there is no receptacle available. Also, 'A' may not appreciate 'Bs' use of their power, although it is minimal at best guess.

Basically, the roof has to be treated as 'tenent' space, unless all the rooftop equip is fed from a 'house' panel (landlord)

Perhaps George can jump in here...


John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200914 04/27/11 10:44 AM
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gfretwell Online Content
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I agree with John. The only way I think I could accept that is if it was on the house panel.


Greg Fretwell
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200916 04/27/11 02:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
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George Little Offline
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I don't have any code references that say that a receptacle for the roof top HVAC has to be fed from any particular source. This to me is a landlord/tenant issue. Greg's house panel might be the best answer. I just went through this with the sign circuits for a strip mall, where the sign circuits came out of the house panel which was in a locked room. Nothing in the code says that is illegal either.

Had one job where one tenant was plugging in his Xmas lights into a service receptacle for his next door tenants HVAC unit.

All these things are not electrical violations. IMHO


George Little
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200922 04/27/11 11:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
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Tesla Offline
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Every shell I've constructed had 'festive lighting' circuits on the house panel AND across a timing switch.


Tesla
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200926 04/28/11 08:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
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renosteinke Offline
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Well, Tesla, consider your future tenants lucky!

Code only says there be power for the convenience of the serviceman. Code is silent as to where that power comes from - or whether it is there under every tenancy circumstance.As the code is wriiten, you could meet the requirement if your neighbors' house had a receptcle nearby. 25 ft. is 25 ft!

A major part of my work has been in remodelling these types of commercial spaces. Joining units, dividing units, moving walls about. It's pretty hard to tell what the future will bring.

A similar situation arises with the ICC requirement for 'lighting the path of egress.' With every remodel, the new tenant gets to 'improve' the landlords' building.

I call it a design matter, and not a compliance issue. Code is supposed to be 'minimal' and 'practical.' That there might be a more elegant solution is not the question.

Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200927 04/28/11 09:39 AM
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HotLine1 Offline
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Reno:
I understand where you are coming from with reference to the 'neighbors' receptacle, and the verbage as written within the NEC. That is the reason I did not reference a code article.

As to using the neighbors electricity, that may be stretched out to a 'theft of services' type issue, and again NOT an NEC issue. Imagine that scenario with two neighbors that are not friends!

Yse, it is a design issue, no I cannot put a 'code' article on it for a violation, and I must add...I have never come accross this issue as an inspector. Both in new construction, tenant fit-ups, or replacement RTUs.





John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200947 04/29/11 04:02 AM
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Tesla Offline
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John, I'm sure that such juice is stolen at every opportunity.

The more seasoned landlords are 'hip' and thusly have house circuits...

'Nuff said.

BTW, these were well engineered major shell projects.

The landlord re-billed the tenants for such loads...

Another circuit that I've run into is a separate GFCI aux to the RTUs...

The idea is that any HVAC tech can cut the power at the disco -- yet still have aux power at the GFCI receptacle....

These are the norms that I have to work towards....

Regardless of the NEC.


Tesla
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200951 04/29/11 08:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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HotLine1 Offline
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Tesla:

I'm not saying there are no 'juice thieves' here on the east coast, and yes I know a few.

My point, I have not had anyone argue/dispute the RT receptacle within 25'. A lot of the new RTUs have the GFI within the RTU, fed by a 120 volt circuit.



John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200952 04/29/11 09:34 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
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ghost307 Offline
Member
Or you could suggest that they bite the bullet and install a combination swtich/receptacle where the receptacle is tapped off the line side. It saves the cost of running a separate 120V circuit so it might work out to the same installed costs when all is said and done.

I think Tesla's talking about these:
http://www.eaton.com/Electrical/USA.../SafetySwitches/AuxiliaryPower/index.htm


Ghost307
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