ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Video door bell causing chime activation of coil
by gfretwell. 12/10/18 12:35 AM
Conduit fill Calculations
by gfretwell. 12/08/18 08:39 PM
Pull out fuse panel?
by Trumpy. 12/06/18 02:12 AM
Swimming Pool question
by HotLine1. 12/05/18 12:37 PM
Tingle off the water spigot
by rmiell. 11/30/18 01:03 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 28 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Re:Roof top receptacles #200908
04/27/11 08:25 AM
04/27/11 08:25 AM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Some one asked me a question about when you install a roof top HVAC system and there are weatherproof receptacles installed within 25' of the unit. Say this install is on a large commercial building. The first unit from tenant A is next to tenant B's unit. Tenant A has a WP recpt. within 25'all is OK. Does tenant B need a receptacle within 25'? Will tenant A's fullfill the requirement?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200910
04/27/11 08:32 AM
04/27/11 08:32 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
Yes, 'B' will need one. IF tenent 'A' becomes vacant, with power terminated, then there is no receptacle available. Also, 'A' may not appreciate 'Bs' use of their power, although it is minimal at best guess.

Basically, the roof has to be treated as 'tenent' space, unless all the rooftop equip is fed from a 'house' panel (landlord)

Perhaps George can jump in here...


John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200914
04/27/11 10:44 AM
04/27/11 10:44 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
I agree with John. The only way I think I could accept that is if it was on the house panel.


Greg Fretwell
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200916
04/27/11 02:54 PM
04/27/11 02:54 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,493
Michigan USA
I don't have any code references that say that a receptacle for the roof top HVAC has to be fed from any particular source. This to me is a landlord/tenant issue. Greg's house panel might be the best answer. I just went through this with the sign circuits for a strip mall, where the sign circuits came out of the house panel which was in a locked room. Nothing in the code says that is illegal either.

Had one job where one tenant was plugging in his Xmas lights into a service receptacle for his next door tenants HVAC unit.

All these things are not electrical violations. IMHO


George Little
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200922
04/27/11 11:14 PM
04/27/11 11:14 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Every shell I've constructed had 'festive lighting' circuits on the house panel AND across a timing switch.


Tesla
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200926
04/28/11 08:23 AM
04/28/11 08:23 AM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Well, Tesla, consider your future tenants lucky!

Code only says there be power for the convenience of the serviceman. Code is silent as to where that power comes from - or whether it is there under every tenancy circumstance.As the code is wriiten, you could meet the requirement if your neighbors' house had a receptcle nearby. 25 ft. is 25 ft!

A major part of my work has been in remodelling these types of commercial spaces. Joining units, dividing units, moving walls about. It's pretty hard to tell what the future will bring.

A similar situation arises with the ICC requirement for 'lighting the path of egress.' With every remodel, the new tenant gets to 'improve' the landlords' building.

I call it a design matter, and not a compliance issue. Code is supposed to be 'minimal' and 'practical.' That there might be a more elegant solution is not the question.

Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200927
04/28/11 09:39 AM
04/28/11 09:39 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Reno:
I understand where you are coming from with reference to the 'neighbors' receptacle, and the verbage as written within the NEC. That is the reason I did not reference a code article.

As to using the neighbors electricity, that may be stretched out to a 'theft of services' type issue, and again NOT an NEC issue. Imagine that scenario with two neighbors that are not friends!

Yse, it is a design issue, no I cannot put a 'code' article on it for a violation, and I must add...I have never come accross this issue as an inspector. Both in new construction, tenant fit-ups, or replacement RTUs.





John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200947
04/29/11 04:02 AM
04/29/11 04:02 AM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
John, I'm sure that such juice is stolen at every opportunity.

The more seasoned landlords are 'hip' and thusly have house circuits...

'Nuff said.

BTW, these were well engineered major shell projects.

The landlord re-billed the tenants for such loads...

Another circuit that I've run into is a separate GFCI aux to the RTUs...

The idea is that any HVAC tech can cut the power at the disco -- yet still have aux power at the GFCI receptacle....

These are the norms that I have to work towards....

Regardless of the NEC.


Tesla
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200951
04/29/11 08:28 AM
04/29/11 08:28 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Tesla:

I'm not saying there are no 'juice thieves' here on the east coast, and yes I know a few.

My point, I have not had anyone argue/dispute the RT receptacle within 25'. A lot of the new RTUs have the GFI within the RTU, fed by a 120 volt circuit.



John
Re:Roof top receptacles [Re: harold endean] #200952
04/29/11 09:34 AM
04/29/11 09:34 AM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 963
Chicago Illinois USA
Or you could suggest that they bite the bullet and install a combination swtich/receptacle where the receptacle is tapped off the line side. It saves the cost of running a separate 120V circuit so it might work out to the same installed costs when all is said and done.

I think Tesla's talking about these:
http://www.eaton.com/Electrical/USA.../SafetySwitches/AuxiliaryPower/index.htm


Ghost307
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
HCE727
HCE727
Delaware County, PA, USA
Posts: 186
Joined: November 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
252,137 Are you busy
189,143 Re: Forum
178,815 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.030s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0294 MB (Peak: 1.2080 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-12-11 02:23:06 UTC