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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 830
S
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I once did a service change and was about to finish the job. I knealt down to label the panel, and recieved a "tingle" from somewhere. I got my meter out and checked the voltage to "ground" (literal earth) and recieved a reading of 117 volts. After troubleshooting I found an old furnace under the house that had been replaced by a heat pump system, but was not properly disconnected. It had "frayed wires" supplying it and it was touching the fuel oil line that was going to the tank located underground at the electrical meter location. The homeowner said his children were in a "kiddi pool" and kept complaining the water felt funny. He felt the water and could feel a tingle. Rather than reporting it to someone, he just moved the pool farther from the house. Thankfully no one was hurt and I disconnected the old furnace under the house. The bonding grid may have come in handy here, but again you can't prevent "dumb" people from doing dumb things. You always have that potential of hazard when someone does not do their job correctly. I still have the photo of the readings I got on my screen saver with my other family photos.

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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
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You sweat when in a hot tub. Gradually the salt content rises.

It exists as ions in solution -- and they are effected by magnetic fields.

( Which is why sub-sea transmission is done by DC only. AC just stirs the ocean and kills transmission economics.)

It is critical that all in one hot tubs have a true ground from the three prong plug. A GFCI is built-in -- but a true ground is necessary to bleed off the voltage induced into the pool as it circulates past the magnetic fields of the pump motor - - and, no, the typical design does NOT have a Faraday cage in anyway shape or form blocking the field windings from sweeping through the bath water.

This kind of induced voltage can reach painful, even lethal levels. I've personally tested voltages as high as 47V from bath to ground. Multiply that by your wet sweaty skin and the mass of circulating salts and you have a real hazard.

The help line from the tub manufacturer was helpless/ clueless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect

The physics of the energy build up is due to the Hall effect. The salty bath water is the conductor and the pump motor provides the electric field and drives the ionic water across the lines of force.

The ions are the charge carriers.

MHD power plants are based on the exact same phenomena -- flipped. They use hot coal fired gases injected with K or Na to rocket through an expansion nozzle wrapped in DC field windings and in passing directly induce DC power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator

When a hot tub is placed on a non-conducting surface and the voltage is not bled off it can build to astounding levels. It ends up becoming a gigantic big wet capacitor. Then one fine day the deck is wet and a path to ground is made. Wham! Trouble.


Tesla
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
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Tesla- Way to much information. If this were as threatening as you indicate there would be an uproar by the public about the hazards of Spas and Hot tubs to the extent that no one would purchase them. I believe they are safe and the NEC requirements are all that are needed for electrical safety.


George Little
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member


great, the code (680.42(b), referes to manufacturer's instructions, which usually say 'call an electrician'

more mobius strip logic, with our trade caught in the vernacular vortex....

~S~

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