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1 members (Scott35),
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
OP
Cat Servant Member
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Tesla, I understand your assertions. That's the problem with the issue: all assertions and no real data!
I am well aware that a golf cart and a street-legal car are two different animals (but you haven't seen my Scion!). Yet, the data might be of value in disproving the thesis. That is, if it costs $3/ mile to recharge a flippin' golf cart, it's safe to say that an electric car -at 10x the weight and 4x the speed- hasn't got a prayer. Ditto if the golf cart batteries are only good for -let me make up a number- 500 miles.
I've had enough platitudes and promises. I want some FACTS.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381 Likes: 7
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Reno:
I can tell you that two of the major golf courses I worked (as EC) at reverted to controling the cart barns for cart charging under favorable 'off-peak' electric rates.
One club had 125 cart chargers, the other was 160 chargers.
ALL regular charging was only available 11:30PM to 7:30AM, 8 hours. The carts survived the 18 to 36 hole day, and one course was very 'hilly'. IMHO, this method is still in use at both clubs. Control reduced utility bill substantially.
Back to your OP:
Projected range of the electric cars, and the initial cost are going to curtail sales to a lot of people. My area of NJ, and most of my neighbors commute 50+ miles to work, with the AM rush at 70-75 clicks baring accidents. Undocumented costs for maintenance of the electrics is a guess at best as there is no track records.
As I said above, as soon as I get a permit app for one, I will let you know.
John
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Joined: Mar 2005
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My electric bicycle was a hand me down from a friend who had upgraded to a newer li-ion model. He just retired and was frittering away some of his pension lump sum! A 2002 model, the original lead-acids were shot, but as they say, never look a gift fractional horse-power in the mouth. I priced up an upgrade to li-ions, as they are half the weight and offered greater range. Price for 36 volts @ 12Ah [+ mandatory new charger] was $600,  - over a third the cost of a new bike, so there's a warning! I opted for new lead-acids, at $150 [use existing charger]. It does 15 mph max. Range without pedalling [I don't pedal, why keep a dog and bark!  ]is about 20 miles. No idea what it costs to charge, but being so low-powered [150W motor] it's peanuts. I do keep it topped up, never exhaust the batteries [it has a cell condition monitor] and keep it frost free. I'll be honest- it's a toy!
Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Oct 2000
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those batteries never seem to run outta collusion> Batteries
In a bit of an unexpected turn, the film's sole "not-guilty" suspect is batteries, one of the chief culprits if you asked the oil or auto industries. At the time GM's EV1 came to market, it came with a lead acid battery with a range of 60 miles. The film suggests that since the average driving distance of Americans in a day is 30 miles or less and so for 90% of Americans, electric cars would work as a daily commute car or second car. The second generation EV1 (and those released by Honda, Toyota, and others) from 1998 to the end of the program, featured nickel-metal or even lithium (Nissan) batteries with a ranges of about 100 or more miles. The film documents that the company who had supplied batteries for EV1 (Ovonics) had been suppressed from announcing improved batteries (with doubled ranges) lest CARB be influenced that batteries were improving. And later, General Motors sold the supplier's majority control share to Chevron/Cobasys. As part of the not-guilty verdict, the famed engineer Alan Cocconi explains that with laptop computer lithium ion batteries, the EV1 could have been upgraded to a range of 300 miles per charge. He makes this point in front of his T-Zero prototype, the car that inspired the Tesla Roadster
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Joined: Mar 2005
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12138420Follow their progress as the highly-esteemed BBC currently [hehe] tries to drive from London to Edinburgh in an electric BMW Mini at taxpayers' expense.
Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Oct 2000
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'First Customer'
Suddenly a cloud lifts; news spreads that someone is actually using the electric charging point for real; car-park attendants from all over central Nottingham are summoned by walkie-talkie to come and admire the spectacle of an electric car plugged in to a socket.
"Welcome to the Victoria Centre," says the customer services co-ordinator, Gary, who is first on the scene.
"You're our first customer in the three years!"
He is quickly joined by the yellow jacketed Natalie, Amy and Robert.
We are hastily awarded the ultimate prize: free parking for at least two hours.
Then it's back on the road, for the 43 mile (70km) trip to Meadowhall Shopping Centre in Sheffield.
There are about 8 charging points in the centre, so I've learnt by now that no one else will be on them.
Furthermore I venture to suggest in advance that no one else has EVER been on them. At least not for real.
man....talk about dangling the carrot....
~S~
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Joined: Mar 2005
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I'm waiting for him to attempt the Newcastle - Edinburgh leg, because there are no commercial posts between them. That and the language problem could scupper him...
One Sunda morn young Lambton went
A-fishing in the Wear;
An' catched a fish upon he's heuk
He thowt leuk't vary queer.
But whatt'n a kind ov fish it was
Young Lambton cudden't tell-
He waddn't fash te carry'd hyem,
So he hoyed it doon a well!
Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 153
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The now standardized European charging system is designed for a maximum of 43kW (63A @ 400V 3phase).
The design time for charging an empty car battery completely is 3.5 hours.
The above mentioned Mini will charge within this time @ 32A 3phase, its capacity is supposed to be 35 kWh. This allows for 200km of driving before next charging. At least in theory.
Although the European system should become available everywhere, this does not necessarily mean, that the design power is available everywhere. It is therefore possible to use the same system @ home on a 16A 230V circuit, with of course longer charging time. Car and socket communicate after plugging in, the car will be immobilized automatically and has to be released as well as the connection cable by a chip card that you bear on you, after charging.
Last edited by Wolfgang; 01/13/11 11:56 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,928 Likes: 34
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The unmentioned elephant in the room for electric cars is heating and air conditioning. If you live in Southern California where it is 75 all the time you might not care but I bet John is not getting in his EV right now unless he wears a snow mobile suit. How many BTU does it take to get that to a reasonable level. A typical car heater is usually about 20k BTU. (around 6KWH)
In the summer you have the same problem, going in the opposite direction. A car interior might be 120 degrees when you open the door and you need about 1.5-2 tons of AC to get that cool before you can get were you are going. That is about all the battery power you can carry, before you step on the accelerator.
Greg Fretwell
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