ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
EMC Glands on Motors
by Trumpy - 12/01/22 06:12 AM
Ground Rods: Installation and Hook-Up
by Trumpy - 12/01/22 05:54 AM
Happy Thanksgiving all!
by gfretwell - 11/30/22 05:55 PM
Colt Firearms Switchbox
by NORCAL - 11/29/22 01:04 AM
Perfect work light?
by gfretwell - 11/22/22 12:48 AM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 59 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#197477 12/01/10 07:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
sparky Offline OP
I'm doing a bid that would include hiring help on an industrial job that requires the DB act

Admittedly, i haven't had to deal with this , and am clueless

the website i've found is here>
Selecting DBA Wage Decisions

the info for my area is>

General Decision Number: VT100010 09/03/2010 VT10

Superseded General Decision Number: VT20080010

State: Vermont

Construction Type: Building

County: Windsor County in Vermont.

BUILDING CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS (does not include single family
homes and apartments up to and including 4 stories)

Modification Number Publication Date
0 03/12/2010
1 04/23/2010
2 06/04/2010
3 09/03/2010

* ELEC0300-001 09/01/2010

Rates Fringes

COMMERCIAL..................$ 17.95 20%+7.20
MANUFACTURING...............$ 19.13 20%+7.20
Cable splicer..............$ 19.19 20%+7.20
Technician.................$ 20.20 20%+7.20
PLUM0693-002 05/01/2010

Rates Fringes

Plumber/pipefitter (includes
HVAC piping):.................$ 25.10 11.85
SUVT2005-006 07/21/2005

Rates Fringes

Carpenter (includes
drywall hanging)..............$ 14.48 3.40

Cement mason....................$ 19.75

Ironworker, structural..........$ 15.00 2.32

Cement mason tender.........$ 12.33 3.86
General.....................$ 10.77

Power equipment operators:
Backhoe.....................$ 15.00 1.75
Excavator...................$ 15.00 1.32

WELDERS - Receive rate prescribed for craft performing
operation to which welding is incidental.

Unlisted classifications needed for work not included within
the scope of the classifications listed may be added after
award only as provided in the labor standards contract clauses
(29CFR 5.5 (a)(1)(ii)).


In the listing above, the "SU" designation means that rates
listed under the identifier do not reflect collectively
bargained wage and fringe benefit rates. Other designations
indicate unions whose rates have been determined to be



1.) Has there been an initial decision in the matter? This can

* an existing published wage determination
* a survey underlying a wage determination
* a Wage and Hour Division letter setting forth a position on
a wage determination matter
* a conformance (additional classification and rate) ruling

On survey related matters, initial contact, including requests
for summaries of surveys, should be with the Wage and Hour
Regional Office for the area in which the survey was conducted
because those Regional Offices have responsibility for the
Davis-Bacon survey program. If the response from this initial
contact is not satisfactory, then the process described in 2.)
and 3.) should be followed.

With regard to any other matter not yet ripe for the formal
process described here, initial contact should be with the
Branch of Construction Wage Determinations. Write to:

Branch of Construction Wage Determinations
Wage and Hour Division
U.S. Department of Labor
200 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20210

2.) If the answer to the question in 1.) is yes, then an
interested party (those affected by the action) can request
review and reconsideration from the Wage and Hour Administrator
(See 29 CFR Part 1.8 and 29 CFR Part 7). Write to:

Wage and Hour Administrator
U.S. Department of Labor
200 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20210

The request should be accompanied by a full statement of the
interested party's position and by any information (wage
payment data, project description, area practice material,
etc.) that the requestor considers relevant to the issue.

3.) If the decision of the Administrator is not favorable, an
interested party may appeal directly to the Administrative
Review Board (formerly the Wage Appeals Board). Write to:

Administrative Review Board
U.S. Department of Labor
200 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20210

4.) All decisions by the Administrative Review Board are final.



as far as i can see i'm held to>
$ 19.13 20%+7.20
i'm not exactly sure how the 20%, or 7.20 works here

any help out there for this first timer?


Latest Estimating Cost Guides & Software:
sparky #197478 12/01/10 07:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Basically, as I understand it and this was about 14+ years back....

$ 19.13 + $3.83 + $ 7.20 equates to $ 31.15 hr/rate.

I did one (1) of these jobs quite a few years back, and swore 'never again'!

Mine was over $65.00 hr/journeyman. And, the paperwork and red tape was a nightmare.

Yours, if the numbers are right, is not a bad rate; current down here is damn close to $98 +

Last edited by HotLine1; 12/01/10 07:55 PM. Reason: added words

HotLine1 #197486 12/02/10 07:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
sparky Offline OP
$31 / $98 is quite a disparity HotOne, i thought the entire jist of the DBA was to address the issue, not accent it...

that said, thanks for doing the math, i'm not sure who to contact about this red tape you speak of, my accountant i would guess?


sparky #197489 12/02/10 09:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7
Your accountant is a 'must'. Also, somewhere within the bureaucratic compilation there should be a person that can offer you some guidance at 'no charge'.

I had to provide detailed payroll records, full disclosure of all my employees, copies of the payroll checks, time sheet records, and detailed work schedules.

There have been instances here (NJ) of various kick-back schemes and 'games' with things like "here's your check, cash it & pay back xxx$ to the 'boss'". Hence, the detailed info required. Oh, yes...there's a multitude of forms also.

Good Luck! Hope ya get the work.

HotLine1 #197508 12/03/10 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
LK Offline
The BD jobs can but most small guys with little or no assets and cash out of business in a flash, and the paper work never ends.

But with a good accountant that knows the system, it sure helps

LK #197509 12/03/10 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
Once you get into a bureaucratic loop (like this job sounds like), plan on waiting forever for your money. I've seen invoices bounced for checking the wrong box on 1 of 18 forms. Once that got fixed, it travelled further up the pipeline until it got kicked out because the forms as submitted were stapled together in the wrong order (I'm not kidding).

Generally everyone in the bureaucrat chain is trying to do their job right, but nobody looks at the big picture. They just want the invoice off their desk; it makes no difference to them if it gets kicked further up the chain or kicked out the door and right back to you.

ghost307 #197511 12/03/10 05:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 7

Heed the above.

HotLine1 #197512 12/03/10 07:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
sparky Offline OP
oh i am HotOne, i'm a little guy, in fact lately i'm so little i need a stool to be seen at the parts counter

so i'm off to the accountant asap before i complete this bid.

one thing i have learned the hard way is an electrician does not a biz man make

i'll post any advice given from the accountant here, and thanks for the heads up


sparky #197583 12/08/10 12:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Davis Bacon jobs normally are terminal for the small guy.

The paperwork burden is normally handled by specialty software these days. Which you will not be able to afford for just one job and a small one at that.

Additionally, you sign away your wife and first born son if they find any screw-ups. Being a newbie -- you'll be getting the treatment. After all, you're stealing someone's rice bowl.

A couple of gotchas: payroll payments must be EXTREMELY timely -- regardless of how slow the public authority pays you. The fact that you're still waiting on your money cuts absolutely no ice at all. Late payroll penalties are ferocious. We're not talking about the checks to the troops -- rather the benefits checks, withheld taxes, etc.

What this means is that the fat gravy in the bid is consumed FINANCING the job for the astonishingly slow pays that populate our government at all levels.

I once ran the books for an NYSE firm whose ONLY customer is Uncle Sam. They routinely financed accounts receivable running out SIX to NINE months -- year in and year out. ( Yes, for the Federal Government ! )

You'd better have that level of working capital/banking arrangement.

Tesla #197590 12/08/10 08:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
sparky Offline OP
interesting Tesla

i did sit before my accountant yesterday, she dug me up some individual in another office that stated 'yeah, we can do DB payroll' , but didn't sound overly excited about it

So now i know it's doable from an accounting standpoint, yet am just learning of these lead lag specifics

methinks the firm that solicited me knows this. They called me looking for a 'little guy' , openly expressing their discontent with numbers they recieved from the 'big guys' (which perhaps are out of state, because most electrical outfits in VT are mom/pop shops)

my spidey sense is tingling....


Last edited by sparky; 12/08/10 08:39 AM.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Posts: 201
Joined: April 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 9
Popular Topics(Views)
300,508 Are you busy
230,151 Re: Forum
214,962 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5