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#196807 10/28/10 08:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,283
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A 2011 added item in Article 110.

Fault current labels, placards etc.

Interesting??


John
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HotLine1 #197423 11/27/10 07:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
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Originally Posted by HotLine1
A 2011 added item in Article 110.

Fault current labels, placards etc.

Interesting??


John.,

If that the case that mean we have to start to stack up all the stickers etc and also have to put in the X number of AFA { Avaibale Fault Amps }

That will be instering twist to the mix.

Merci,
Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Joined: Apr 2002
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Marc:
Yes, that's what we will have to do! I did a CEU course on this (2 hrs CEUs) and was surprised that 19 guys showed up on a short notice schedule.

The meat of the course was the point-to-point method.


John
HotLine1 #197426 11/28/10 02:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
Member
Just started dancing around the 2011 today.
On this topic: I see more of where 'WE' SHALL mark, hell,I'm (and you) are professionals!!!!!!!!!!! I am very much aware of determining the inherent risks with which I am working.!!

Seems to me... The code is now being written for those of whom do not.

With that, Do 'Ya think 'They' have or will read an NEC directive!!?

I don't have any problem marking for the next 'guy' mind you.

I do, however, have a problem setting myself up for a law suit from an under-non-qualified individual trying to save a buck.

Is this really the way to make electrical installations safer?

Sorry for the rant,this lil' thing just claws at me.

Last edited by leland; 11/28/10 02:36 AM.
leland #197427 11/28/10 05:36 PM
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Le:
As there is NO wording within 110.24 requiring any identification of the person/entity creating the label, or doing the calcs, how do you see one of our abundanance of lawyers coming after you, or any other individual?



John
leland #197455 11/30/10 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
Member
Originally Posted by leland
Just started dancing around the 2011 today.
On this topic: I see more of where 'WE' SHALL mark, hell,I'm (and you) are professionals!!!!!!!!!!! I am very much aware of determining the inherent risks with which I am working.!!

Seems to me... The code is now being written for those of whom do not.

With that, Do 'Ya think 'They' have or will read an NEC directive!!?

I don't have any problem marking for the next 'guy' mind you.

I do, however, have a problem setting myself up for a law suit from an under-non-qualified individual trying to save a buck.

Is this really the way to make electrical installations safer?

Sorry for the rant,this lil' thing just claws at me.


serving a carear that's one big fat seething double standard does get old

i'll grant you that.....

~S~

HotLine1 #197472 12/01/10 03:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
J
JBD Offline
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Originally Posted by HotLine1
Le:
As there is NO wording within 110.24 requiring any identification of the person/entity creating the label, or doing the calcs, how do you see one of our abundanance of lawyers coming after you, or any other individual?


There isn't even any requirement to what values need to be put on the label.

An actually calculated value? - This is the hardest value to get, and i will change with time.
A maximum design value? - Some utilities provide this value to aid in selecting equipment ratings.
A minimum equipment rating value? - Some engineers base their AIC selection off of voltage levels without considering real world conditions.

For example:
I calculate a service as being 480V 24,850A.
The utility says they will never exceed 50,000A
The plans call for a minimum 65kAIC equipment at 480V

JBD #197474 12/01/10 03:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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JBD:

Care to expand on the above?
Did you calc from utility xfr to first disco means?
Did you 'spec' 65KAIC gear, or where did that number come from?

As you say some utilities provide a value, is that value at there pad mount terminals, or at the utility drop point?



John
HotLine1 #197475 12/01/10 04:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
J
JBD Offline
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John,

The actual values do not matter. I am pointing out that there are different valid values that could be appear on the lable.

I am sure the hope is, the new requirement for a fault current value on a lable will help in enforcing 110.9 and 110.10, but without some guidance it is just something else that will be mis-applied.

JBD #197479 12/01/10 08:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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JBD:

Agree. I'm not looking forward to the first guy that picks a 'pie-in-the sky' number, and writes it on a label.

With new 110.14, there definitely will be a lot of growing pains, and a large learning curve for both ECs and AHJs. It should be interesting.

Maybe it may create some added work for you?



John

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