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code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? #196838
10/29/10 11:58 AM
10/29/10 11:58 AM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
I got the new NEC book. Try to find where in the book contains the provisions regarding two-prong electric outlets in old houses (prior to 1960s).

If the houses are not upgraded and outlets remain the same as the before (two-prongs), any mandates require the upgrades or changes to meet today's electric code.

Any easiest way to do so without rewiring the entire house that seems impossible or cost prohibitive? replace two prongs with GFCI outlet on every signle one?

City requires that all electric outlet must be Either grounded, two-prongs or GFCI. Any ideas?

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Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: LicensedEngineer] #196839
10/29/10 12:50 PM
10/29/10 12:50 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,196
Estero,Fl,usa
GFCI breakers may be the cheapest solution. Your electrician can make a real assessment.


Greg Fretwell
Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: gfretwell] #196851
10/29/10 07:43 PM
10/29/10 07:43 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,946
Brick, NJ USA
Depending on local codes (stress dependent) an upgrade may be necessary.

Pure NEC enforcement (Based on NJ UCC laws) I (AHJ) cannot mandate replacement. However, those that are replaced must comply with the adopted NEC, as amended with the NJ UCC Electrical Subcode. There are still non-ground receptacles on many shelves.

Consult with an area lic. electrical contractor for your local requirements.


John
Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: HotLine1] #196921
11/01/10 07:29 PM
11/01/10 07:29 PM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
Hi John,

Thanks for replying. I did not change a few 2 prongs outlet to Leviton GFCIs without grounding wiring connected as there are none ground wires in the boxes.

Wiring is correct: Hot-black and neutral-white on the "Line" end.

But GFCI outlets cannot be "TESTed" or "RESET" with the two buttons on the GFCI outlets. The GFCI outlets are providing electricity and and green light indicators are on. A handheld wiring tester shows that the outlets are "Open Ground" (as there are not ground wires in the boxes) and cannot be reset as well.

Is it ok? Thanks for advise!


Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: LicensedEngineer] #196929
11/01/10 10:14 PM
11/01/10 10:14 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,196
Estero,Fl,usa
They should trip with test. This does not use the grounding conductor.


Greg Fretwell
Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: gfretwell] #196936
11/02/10 12:40 AM
11/02/10 12:40 AM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
Thanks Greg! Leviton told me the same, that its GFCI does not have to use the grounding wire. I do not know why it does not trip as the wiring is simple. An electrician told me that because there is not enough current draining out the circurt when "TESTing" without grounding conductor, it may not trip when pusting the TEST button or using a GFCI handheld tester, but it will provide protection needed in a situation of Ground Fault. Please advise. Thanks,
Hal

Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: LicensedEngineer] #196937
11/02/10 12:49 AM
11/02/10 12:49 AM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
Thanks Greg! Leviton told me the same, that its GFCI does not have to use the grounding wire. I do not know why it does not trip/interrupt as the wiring is simple.

An electrician explained that because there is not enough current draining out the circurt without grounding conductor when "TESTing" to trip or interrupt when pushing the TEST button or using a GFCI handheld tester, it will provide protection needed in a situation of Ground Fault. Please advise. Thanks so much,
Hal

Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: LicensedEngineer] #196938
11/02/10 01:36 AM
11/02/10 01:36 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,196
Estero,Fl,usa
The GFCI works by comparing the current it the white to the current in the black. If more is going out than comes back in they assume a ground fault. The test is just a resistor in the device that causes an artificial imbalance in that transformer, using the line and neutral. The ground is not involved.


Greg Fretwell
Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: gfretwell] #196939
11/02/10 02:24 AM
11/02/10 02:24 AM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
Thanks for your explanation that makes a good sense. Is it possible that the GFCI I bought have a defact? Thanks

Re: code vilation? two prongs outlet receptacle?? [Re: gfretwell] #196940
11/02/10 02:34 AM
11/02/10 02:34 AM
L
LicensedEngineer  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6
Ohio
If without grounding conductor in this case, should an outlet tester also indicate the GFCI outlet has OPEN GROUND, or is not CORRECT (two green light indicators on the tester)?

Appreciate so much for your help and sharing your knowledge.

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