1 members (Scott35),
526
guests, and
14
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
OP
Member
|
In attempting to get as much info as possible for presentation to the full group for discussion, I have found some disturbing items. If anything has changed from the below I'd like to know. 1. AFCI's not compatible with GFCI protected circuits. 2. Combination AFCI/GFCI CB's may be available in the future. 3. No testing device available for AFCI CB's. 4. Disconnect all AFCI's prior to hy-potting a panel. Several other concerns/shortcomings. The other panel members are leaning towards rejecting the requirement for AFCI's, as have many jurisdictions. What is the concensus from those who are forced to deal with items like this that are injected into the system prior to having full testing and evaluation. The one that is most disturbing to me is #1. It appears that the mfgrs once again used their influence to get an item in the code before it's time. It makes it real difficult for those who are trying to get legislation passed to accept the NEC. Rowdy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
Member
|
I suggest that you do a search on this forum for AFCI. There are a large number of threads with extensive posts on this subject. don
Don(resqcapt19)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 169
OP
Member
|
I have searched the mfgrs and UL sites. That's where I got the info. Rowdy
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
2nd Don's reply
quickly:
1. AFCI's not compatible with GFCI protected circuits.
no prob, to my knowledge.....
2. Combination AFCI/GFCI CB's may be available in the future.
as i understand it, yes.....
3. No testing device available for AFCI CB's.
no,there was a thread here, and new 'tester'.
4. Disconnect all AFCI's prior to hy-potting a panel.
true, i believe it is stated on the packaging.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
Member
|
Because of the lack of reliable accurate historical information and a lot of manufacturers hype, many jurisdictions declined to be part of the beta test of these devices. as for your questions # 1 no need to put a gfi and afci on same circuit. #2 Cutler hammer and square D afci have gfi circuitry in thier afci. So thier rep's claim as does thier brocures. It set somewhere from 30 to 70 mA according to the rep's depending on manufacturer. #3 true only device marketed is a waste of maney it has a problem according to a recall notice I saw #4 Any device with sensitive electronics will not stand a hipot test including gfi breakers. As don said AFCI's have been the subject of a lot of posts here. I for one still do not believe the are worth the cost.
ed
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236 Likes: 1
Member
|
Allow me to add: The AFCIs, for the most part, are Class B GFCIs. They cannot be used as Class A GFCI protection.
-Virgil Residential/Commercial Inspector 5 Star Inspections Member IAEI
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
Member
|
We should not be calling the ground fault protection that is built into the AFCI breaker GFCI. It is not GFCI, with the exception of the dual listed CH product, it is GFP. As sparky66 pointed out, the GFP in the AFCI device is set to operate much above the required setpoint of a GFCI device. The term GFCI should be reserved for use for ground fault protection devices that are intended to protect people. The term GFP should be used for all other ground fault protection devices. When you get down to studying the details of the AFCI breaker operation, you will find that in many cases the actual protection is provided by the GFP circuit and not the fancy arc detection circuit. don
Don(resqcapt19)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Member
|
NESparky,
I can think of at least one scenario that leads to a required GFI on an AFCI protected circuit.
If I elect to put an exterior outlet on the deck (hypothetical deck) outside the bedroom, when the deck access is through the bedroom, I'll find it awful tempting to tag on the deck outlet and light to the bedroom circuit, especially if the job is competitively bid.
Admittedly, not all deck situations will require a GFI for the outlet on the deck, but many will.
Exploring the possibilities,
Al
Al Hildenbrand
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
Member
|
Good point AL Since my home state deleted the AFCI requirements when the 2002 code was adopted, I do not have to worry about that problem.
ed
|
|
|
Posts: 404
Joined: March 2007
|
|
|
|