ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Bill Addiss. 08/13/18 05:52 PM
Upgrade the old panel
by gfretwell. 08/13/18 12:20 AM
depth of duckbank
by ghost307. 08/12/18 09:26 PM
Section 179 vehicle purchases
by BigB. 08/05/18 01:06 PM
Don't you buy this stuff
by BigB. 08/05/18 01:00 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (NORCAL), 9 guests, and 23 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Industrial Service #194137
05/12/10 08:28 PM
05/12/10 08:28 PM
S
SJT  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
Hello, There is switchgear located outside, near a Building, that has walk in weatherproof cubicles with rack out breakers, and these feed panels on the interior of the Bldg. Can the rack out breakers be considered service equipment, if you have to open a locked gate to gain access? I'm thinking that would be your utility power (location of the rack out breakers is very close to the Bldg. The Main service switch is the first means of disconnect inside the Building, right? Thanks

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Industrial Service [Re: SJT] #194141
05/12/10 10:10 PM
05/12/10 10:10 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,997
Brick, NJ USA
Not an easy, quick answer.

Who owns the outside 'gear? Customer owned primary service? POCO 'gear? Any of the rack out breakers identified as a service disco? Marked "Main"?

The service 'main disco' can be either outside, or inside a structure, closest to the point of entry from the utility. Not necessarilly 'on the other side of the wall'; the unprotected (No OCP) conductors must be 'outside' of the structure.

If the site has primary service (7.2KV; 13.2KV etc) the service disco should be in the cubicle adjacent to the POCO pull/termination cabinet. It should be identified as "Service Disco"/"Main" along with Hi Voltage labels, and other info.



John
Re: Industrial Service [Re: HotLine1] #194170
05/13/10 09:15 PM
05/13/10 09:15 PM
S
SJT  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
PATCHOGUE, N.Y.
John, Thanks for the reply. I know what you mean, that it's not a fast answer. It's a large complex with many Bldgs. There are company owned utility lines with 13.8KV, 2400V ran throughout the site. There are many Pad mount transformers where the 480V or 208V goes directly into the Bldg. It's clear then as what is the main. It seems the way they have been treating the service, is the one that is inside the Bldg. I was wondering what the code would say. I guess the Main would have to be accesible, and not behind a locked gate, like a substation, and will they consider that utility?

Re: Industrial Service [Re: SJT] #194174
05/14/10 12:01 AM
05/14/10 12:01 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,997
Brick, NJ USA
Many facilities that I have been involved with, both as an EC, and now as an AHJ have HV services.

The 'service disco' usually is at the point near/where the POCO feeders enter the facility owned equipment. A common setup is a pull section that the POCO cabling terminates in; a PT/CT/etc. then either a "Main" or group of six (6) switches. 'Service' labels must be on the gear. All of this gear is customer owned 7 maintained. Hence, opening the 'main' (or group of six) kills all the power to the facility.

Anything originating from this point outward is considered a feeder, not a service.

Accessability issues re: the locked fence are a local issue to be determined by your AHJ. Breakaway type padlocks are required in some areas; "Knox Boxes" are required in other areas. The fence & gate must be posted with High Voltage signage.

As the HV is distributed thru the facility, and transformed to lower voltages, you have sep. derived systems. Each of these may have primary (HV) and secondary OCP, with the 'main' in the secondary. This by definition is an SDS, not a 'Service'.



John
Re: Industrial Service [Re: HotLine1] #194227
05/16/10 10:06 PM
05/16/10 10:06 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
The SERVICE is a LEGAL construct: it is the point of connection between Poco assets and Customer assets.

ALL Poco's have standards for those Points Of Service.

So the real question is always not what it is but whose it is...

This is complicated because it is extremely common for the Poco to mandate the specific construction of Service Laterals which are subsequently to be deeded over to the Poco for free as a condition of service.

My last casino project was fed 21 kVolts across a 20 mile spur. THAT was the SERVICE. Everything at the site was customer owned: the casino itself had 4 HV transformers -- one at each compass facing of the building. None of these elements could ever be considered a SERVICE.


Tesla

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Grover
Grover
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 2
Popular Topics(Views)
248,567 Are you busy
186,283 Re: Forum
175,745 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9704 MB (Peak: 1.1116 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-08-17 01:30:22 UTC