ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Inspection camera help
by Bill Addiss. 09/19/18 10:50 PM
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:37 PM
Acronis Backup 2017
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:46 AM
Tingle off the water spigot
by Trumpy. 09/15/18 03:24 AM
Lighting Load questions
by HotLine1. 09/14/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 33 guests, and 26 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Pool Heaters #187945
07/14/09 09:33 PM
07/14/09 09:33 PM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
uhmmmm....ok, [forestgumpmode}

why can't i put a pool heater on a gfi breaker?


[Linked Image]

~S(life is like a box of wirenuts)parky~
[/forestgumpmode}

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Pool Heaters [Re: sparky] #187946
07/14/09 09:46 PM
07/14/09 09:46 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
There's no rule against it. Indeed, many whirlpool spas come with the heaters - and everything else - GFI protected at the 50 amp feed.

Re: Pool Heaters [Re: renosteinke] #187950
07/14/09 10:03 PM
07/14/09 10:03 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Sparky:
Hola mi amigo....

Perhaps the electronic ignition device (spark ignitor) is the culprit?



John
Re: Pool Heaters [Re: HotLine1] #187954
07/15/09 12:27 AM
07/15/09 12:27 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,287
Estero,Fl,usa
Since they are supposed to be downstream of the pump on the pump circuit I am not sure how you avoid it.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pool Heaters [Re: renosteinke] #187958
07/15/09 08:12 AM
07/15/09 08:12 AM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Originally Posted by renosteinke
There's no rule against it. Indeed, many whirlpool spas come with the heaters - and everything else - GFI protected at the 50 amp feed.


havnen't read anything specifically stating 'pool heater must be on a GFI' , nor does the manfacture's instruction state anything of the sort (save for the usual 'call a licensed sparky' copout)

~S~

Re: Pool Heaters [Re: HotLine1] #187959
07/15/09 08:14 AM
07/15/09 08:14 AM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Sparky:
Hola mi amigo....

Perhaps the electronic ignition device (spark ignitor) is the culprit?



possibly so, this is a 220V gas fired heater....~S~

Re: Pool Heaters [Re: gfretwell] #187960
07/15/09 08:16 AM
07/15/09 08:16 AM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Originally Posted by gfretwell
Since they are supposed to be downstream of the pump on the pump circuit I am not sure how you avoid it.


well the instructions show the heater downstream from the pool timer (if that's what you mean Greg)

the problem there is, no timer was provided .....

Re: Pool Heaters [Re: sparky] #187961
07/15/09 08:27 AM
07/15/09 08:27 AM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
okay, withpout digging too far into the good book here,let's dwell on the concept(s)

we're suppose to bond the living daylights outta a pool for the benifit of an equopotential plane, which greatly enhances the efficy of gfci protection right?

so here is this 220V gas fired pool heater, comes with a #8 externally mounted ground lug , says zip about gfci protection, and states in bold letters Do Not Bond to Pool Motor, ground to 'approved earth ground only'

excuse me? are we talking G-rods? what?

I've installed two 2p-gfci breakers (inside) feeding out to the pump motor and heater respectively here, with an outside disco for each, just in case....

i've also bonded it all together back to the pool's bond because that's what's been drilled into me (as well as the '08 nec)

if the infernal thing can't live on a gfci i'm not sure i'd be comfortable deleting it here...

~S~






Re: Pool Heaters [Re: sparky] #187968
07/15/09 02:09 PM
07/15/09 02:09 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,287
Estero,Fl,usa
What brand heater is this? I don't see anything like that in my StaRite heater instructions.
That is one reason why I am not 100% in favor of making 110.3(B) gospel. Just because something gets translated from Chinese to say something stupid, I will still trump it with the NEC requirements.
The intent is that you can't get power to the heater unless the pump is running, hence down stream of the timer. That timer is also supposed to be 2 stage so it runs the pump 15 minutes after the heater stops. Without a timer you lose that safety feature. If the heater is wired directly to power it is even worse than that and you are depending on the flow/pressure switch to prevent a "dry fire".
As for bonding, we all know what the right answer is.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Pool Heaters [Re: gfretwell] #187974
07/15/09 09:19 PM
07/15/09 09:19 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Sparky:
I'm confused now....why 220 volts to a gas fired heater?? Something in it require 220?

Ya definitely have to do as Greg said...run the pump for a cool down period, or the heater will kinda self destruct really soon. AS to the bonding....perhaps 'earth' as '08 def for ground? Lost in a language translation.


John
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Lostazhell
Lostazhell
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Orange Co.)
Posts: 1,431
Joined: February 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 13
Trumpy 11
sparky 9
Popular Topics(Views)
249,300 Are you busy
187,233 Re: Forum
176,599 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0278 MB (Peak: 1.2105 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-20 07:55:08 UTC