ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Questioning the electrical norms
by HotLine1 - 03/04/21 12:35 PM
Lock-down Thread
by gfretwell - 03/03/21 12:38 PM
Northern Tool Recalls Powerhorse Generators
by Admin - 02/25/21 09:49 PM
You will never guess
by gfretwell - 02/25/21 07:48 PM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 17 guests, and 20 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles #187520 06/29/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Reviewing the "Report on Proposals," the committee has accepted a number of proposals that expand their required use to any commercial / institutional area used by children.

For the most part, these proposals seem to copy already existing requirements (in other codes) that schools, day care centers, etc., have the receptacles.

The committee seems to still consider it perfectly reasonable to require the receptacle on the ceiling of the garage, for the door opener, to be tamper resistant.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: renosteinke] #187542 06/30/09 09:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
B
Bigplanz Offline
Member
I don't understand the resistance to TR receptacles. They are simple mechanical devices that prevent inadvertent insertion of a single object (wire, screwdriver blade, whatever) into a hot slot. Mass produced, they cost very little, hardly more to be of consequence. True, they are not 'needed' in the strictest sense, but in the broader, statistical sense they certainly will help to reduce shock hazards. What's the big deal anyway?

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: Bigplanz] #187642 07/04/09 06:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline
Member
Bigplanz,


If you have children, I can really see having tamper proof receptacles. I had 2 children and every one of my receptacles had childproof caps in them while the kids were growing up. If you are just 2 adults living in a house, why would you need TR receptacles? How much more do they cost than regular receptacles? It this time of recession, the HO is fighting for every dollar they have. They don't want to spend an extra $5 on anything. The new 2008 NEC now requires TR receptacles everywhere that 210.52 states. Does that mean garage door receptacles need TR receptacles? Don't get me wrong, I am all about safety. It is just getting out of hand. I believe that manufactures are taking over the code making boards of the NEC. Isn't this a conflict of interest? They changed the bonding grid around the pool (AGAIN) in this code. So what did the 3' grid around the pool prove. It made the manufacture of that copper 1' X 1' grid a lot of money. I will get off my soap box now. ( Sorry)

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: harold endean] #187645 07/05/09 12:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
I'd like to observe that, prior to the NEC gettint involved in this matter, 'tamper resistant' trceptacles were addressed by other codes, other agencies, typically requiring them in day care centers and such.

Even then, the rules typically specified a distance (within reach of the little ones), restricted the requirement to areas used by the children, and perhaps removed the requirement if the circuit was FCI protected.

Most of the proposals submitted to the NEC panel restate these requirement, extending the NEC requirement into commercial locations.

The 2008 requirement was resisted primarily, I believe, because it took everyone by surprise. We can add to that a general cynicism (if it can break, it will), and concerns about servicing receptacles.

After all, just how do you test a receptacle. Now the things are specifically designed to keep your meter probes and ticker out!

There was also the broad scope of the 2008 requirement. No matter how inaccessible, or out of reach of children, the code requires the receptacles to be tamper resistant.

I started these threads - and there will be more - to encourage discussion and comment upon these, and other, proposals to the NEC. If you don't like a proposal, now is the time to speak up.

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: renosteinke] #187647 07/05/09 03:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
B
Bigplanz Offline
Member
I wonder if a ticker can read current with the little screen in the way? Good point though. Hadn't thought of that one. My receptacle tester (plug in type) will work, but probably not the ticker.

I think a meter probe could work if you stuck both probes into the slots simultaneously.

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: Bigplanz] #187648 07/05/09 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
With some fussing about,you just might be able to get your probes into both slots at once.

Yet, I'm at a loss to see how I can check for reverse polarity, or a bad ground, witout having but one probe in a 'slot,' while the other is in the ground prong opening.

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: renosteinke] #187652 07/06/09 01:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,571
G
gfretwell Online Content
Member
The truth finally comes out, this is a plot by Ideal to sell SureTests


Greg Fretwell
Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: gfretwell] #187826 07/10/09 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 315
L
luckyshadow Offline
Member
I'll bet the ticker will read through the shutters in the TR receptacles. They read through a heavy duty cord cap and they are much more insulated then those little shutters in the receptacle.

Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: luckyshadow] #187970 07/15/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 73
B
Bigplanz Offline
Member
I just checked the Lowes web site, and a 10 pack of TR receptacles goes for $12. To me the 'it costs more issue' is a non-starter. The cost difference between TR and non-TR receptacles is negligible in regard to new construction or renovation. In regard to children v. non-children in the house, the concern is that houses change hands. What can be a 'child free house' can quickly become a 'full of children house' when property changes ownership/tenancy. I think TR receptacles should be required for all receptacles, the same as three-prong, grounded receptacles are required. I am sure the cost issue/government meddling issue came up when the three prong, grounded receptacles were required too.

Last edited by Bigplanz; 07/15/09 03:26 PM.
Re: 2011: Tamper Resistant Receptacles [Re: Bigplanz] #187972 07/15/09 05:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
mikesh Offline
Member
TR receptacles are going to be problem for some adults but probably very few. I am concerned that kids smart enough to use 2 metal objects to find out where the electricity is will result in the fatalities we so far have not seen. apparently i never learned about not sticking thins into receptacles as I am told I used a tweezer the first time and a butter knife the second time and scissors the third time. I never touched the stove top as I knew what hot is. Some mom is going to believe their kid can't get hurt because they have TR receptacles installed and not watch for the kid that tries a tweezer with 2 prongs or two screw drivers or 2 paper clips, etc.
I can't recall if there were any fatalities listed as justification for the rule change but the injury severity will rise of kids start probing with 2 tools instead of just 1.

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
noderaser
noderaser
Portland, Oregon, United States
Posts: 404
Joined: March 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
275,648 Are you busy
209,573 Re: Forum
196,928 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3