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#186422 - 05/12/09 10:38 AM Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dust!  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
Seems the French have come up with a way of making their CEE 7/5 socket outlets totally flush.

There's a spring loaded plate on the front of the socket, which is pressed back as the plug is inserted.

The socket's also shuttered.

Looks like quite a decent design.

They're aiming it at areas that need to be dust free and wipe-down (with the power off) e.g. hospital rooms, kitchens, etc. But, I could see it catching on in homes purely for the convenience and looks.

[Linked Image]


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#186452 - 05/13/09 06:03 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dust! [Re: djk]  
Texas_Ranger  Online Content
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Vienna, Austria
*hehe* cool idea I have to admit!


#186471 - 05/14/09 04:47 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
djk  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,237
Ireland
I really think that CEE 7/7 should adopt that system as the standard socket, instead of traditional reversible schuko CEE 7/4.

Just enforce strict polarisation.

You could phase the side-earthed schuko sockets out of use very painlessly and end up with a polarised system.

For non-grounded appliances requiring polarised connections

[Linked Image]

Solves all problems when used with the French sockets.



#186474 - 05/14/09 06:38 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: djk]  
uksparx  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 45
Egremont,Cumbria,UK
Great idea that - it looks so much neater - I agree, the French socket should be adopted all over Europe INCLUDING the UK!! I'm suer it would help both manufacturers and consumers.


#186478 - 05/14/09 11:49 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: uksparx]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Guys when I was living in France for while and yeah with that photo it is pretty popuar now it came out not too long ago they learn few tips from North America design and readpat to European set up.

Yeah I like it when they standarized it for whole Europeian area just like what the Nord America { USA , Canada et Mexico } all use the same recpetale format.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#186634 - 05/22/09 09:54 AM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: frenchelectrican]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
Too bad we can't standardize between North America and Europe.


#186666 - 05/23/09 09:50 AM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: SteveFehr]  
Texas_Ranger  Online Content
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,402
Vienna, Austria
If the idea of having 240V outlets for imported European kitchen appliances does catch on you might be able to just do that wink
Imagine - first it's kitchen appliances, then space heaters in all other rooms, as those receptacles spread, grey imports of 230/240V entertainment equipment will go up... until lighting is the only 120V stuff left in the US laugh

Anyway, why force Schuko countries to switch to the French system? Polarization is most important with Edison base lights and those floor and table lamps are mostly double isolated and have Euro or contour plugs that can be reversed anyway. I think having both systems and phasing out the production of proprietary plugs (making all new plugs of the combined type, I think CEE 7/7 it is) is the best solution.

Regarding the age old UK problem - what if one split up a 32 amp ring into two 16 amp radials by adding an MCB and disconnecting one part of the ring? Same amount of power available for the cost of two MCBs and French sockets can be used without any trouble.


#186702 - 05/25/09 05:17 AM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger

Regarding the age old UK problem - what if one split up a 32 amp ring into two 16 amp radials by adding an MCB and disconnecting one part of the ring? Same amount of power available for the cost of two MCBs and French sockets can be used without any trouble.


That would be a pretty good solution there Ragnar. smile
I'm surprised the ring circuit is even being installed in new construction in the UK, these days.

The only reason it was used was because it was cheap and allowed a smaller consumer unit for a given installation, especially those with two storey houses.
But let's look at it this way, using say a 2.5mm2 cable with a 30A fuse on it, is poor design really, even though each plug has a 13A fuse in it, you are still overloading the cable to an extent.

To my reckoning, 2.5mm2 is good for about 27A, now, it will take a 30A fuse some time to blow under overload, when you have, say 3 heaters that draw 9A each (not enough to blow a 13A fuse), especially when you consider it takes 45A or more to blow that 30A fuse.
The effects of this current on the insulation of the cable feeding the circuit is often under-stated.

Is my reckoning all mucked up?

I personally think the radial circuit is the way to go, no fuses in plugs, no damage to cables in winter.

Your comments would be good.


#186718 - 05/25/09 06:30 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: Trumpy]  
Alan Belson  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
Trumpy, the fused plug, and the ring main is far from extinction in the UK, and is still being fitted in new build. [If there was any new build at the moment that is!] I never saw any distribution boxes with fuses as new installations in the UK for thirty years. I used mcbs with rcds in the distribution box in a UK house remodel I did in 1978. Actual loadings of modern lifestyle use in real household situations are now quite low, apart from electric cookers, immersion heaters and of course, the dreaded DIY shed-cum-workshop and these are all usually wired as discrete circuits as spurs. Most houses in the UK with a DIYer in residence usually run an unbelievable number of double or treble outlets, as some sort of Chav* fashion statement! DIY use is where the real risks of overloadings occur, particularly with welders and big woodworking machines illegally installed by 'weekend warriors' without 'Part P' Local Authority approval or inspection. Is that our concern if these idiots illegally burn their houses down? In theory a 2.5mm ring main doubles the area of wire, to 5mm, as one is actually running 2 cables to each outlet socket. The 13A fuse is discrete to each appliance.
Electric Storage radiators are usually wired on their own circuit.

But politics is the real hurdle to the UK switching to a Shuko or French style plug. The furore that erupted from the public the last time this was mooted was indescribable! We have EU elections coming up on June 4, and with the present sleaze revellations of our MPs expenses, the anti Europe parties may grab a fair lump of the electorate. [I particulary liked the story of the Peoples' Representative who claimed over 8000 bucks to rewire his entire apartment because a light bulb exploded!]

Chav? Google; chav wikipedia

Alan

Last edited by Alan Belson; 05/25/09 06:31 PM.

Wood work but can't!

#186723 - 05/25/09 07:09 PM Re: Recessed socket outlets - but clean and no dus [Re: Alan Belson]  
pdh  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 354
Originally Posted by Alan Belson
In theory a 2.5mm ring main doubles the area of wire, to 5mm, as one is actually running 2 cables to each outlet socket. The 13A fuse is discrete to each appliance.

And what if a there are 3 appliances pulling 10 amps each on one ring circuit, and a loose connection on one side of the ring burns open?

I (in USA) thought up ring circuits on my own back in the late 1960's in my teen age. But even then I could understand the above failure mode and suggested the idea in the form of completing each end of the ring into separate 15A breakers. The idea wasn't for saving panel space; it was for saving wire. This was back when there was a push to Al wire from Cu. Fortunately, my parent's new house was wired Cu, anyway.


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