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Conductor & Protection Question #184489
02/11/09 05:08 PM
02/11/09 05:08 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
Single phase 208 volt primary. 480 volt single phase secondary. 10 kva transformer.(stepping up)
40 amp breaker on Primary.
Question 1 : secondary protection required??
Question 2 : Distance 1000 feet on secondary with 2 # 2 & 1 # 6 Ground. OK??
Question 3 : Step back down at end of 1000 ft to 208 volt Protection required Primary or secondary or both???
I got my ideas want yours .
Yoopersup

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: Yoopersup] #184494
02/11/09 10:10 PM
02/11/09 10:10 PM
F
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Originally Posted by Yoopersup
Single phase 208 volt primary. 480 volt single phase secondary. 10 kva transformer.(stepping up)
40 amp breaker on Primary.
Question 1 : secondary protection required??
Question 2 : Distance 1000 feet on secondary with 2 # 2 & 1 # 6 Ground. OK??
Question 3 : Step back down at end of 1000 ft to 208 volt Protection required Primary or secondary or both???
I got my ideas want yours .
Yoopersup


I have few question realted to the 10KVA transfomer size are you sized by 80% of rated transfomer ?

Next step here for rest of the question I will post the answer for each one

1] Yes you will need secondary protection either CB or Fuse { you will see more detail when I get the latter part}

2] #2 conductor is not a issue with that kind of load however you will have issue with EGC conductor I did check the voltage drop with #2's 1.5% VD {7.4V} #4's 2.4% {11.7V } #6's 3.9% {18.7V} #8's 6.2% {29.6V} keep in your mind I figures with 20 A @ 480V any larger loads than what I listed here the bet is off.

3]get nonfused primary disconnect switch that will be used as isolation switch useage and yes you will need OCPD on secondary side to finetuned to that load.

I will let other members here to see if they come up with answer if they are the same page or not.

Merci,Marc



Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: frenchelectrican] #184503
02/11/09 11:07 PM
02/11/09 11:07 PM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
I would step up to 600V if possible.

Because your transformer is a single voltage output, you could use the primary OCPD as protection for the secondary conductors. But, because you have two transformers in series you will, need an OCPD somewhere between them.

Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: JBD] #184528
02/12/09 01:30 PM
02/12/09 01:30 PM
S
sabrown  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 302
Ogden, Utah, USA
Marc breings up some good points.

Dry type transformers are not rated for overload like the liquid filled "pigs" on poles. Keep the loading at 80%.

Next be aware that not all transformers may have their primaries and secondaries swapped. Don't do it for transformers under 1kva, they typically have uneven primary to secondary turns ratios to make up for their small wire and voltage drop. Check with the manufacturer before using ANY transformer in this manner to be certain.

Otherwise, in doing voltage drop calculations, you need to consider how balanced the load is, the type of tranformer connection (wye-wye, wye delta, etc), even the type of load (harmonics and power factor). Without checking Marc's numbers they are a good place to start.

Stepping up to 600 volts can sometimes increase the overall cost. Cost it out both ways, realizing you also need to redo the voltage drop calcs for the 600 volt and proportionately smaller current.


Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: sabrown] #184542
02/12/09 07:11 PM
02/12/09 07:11 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Can someone tell me how you came up withe the voltage drop calculation when you don't know what the load is?

I'm not an engineer but I think we need more details before we can answer Yoopersup's question.


George Little
Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: sabrown] #184543
02/12/09 07:12 PM
02/12/09 07:12 PM
A
allphase  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14
Chicago il.
?#1 yes
?#2 load?
?#3 yes yes

Larry

Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: George Little] #184546
02/12/09 08:35 PM
02/12/09 08:35 PM
F
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
Originally Posted by George Little
Can someone tell me how you came up withe the voltage drop calculation when you don't know what the load is?

I'm not an engineer but I think we need more details before we can answer Yoopersup's question.


George.,

Let you know I did the voltage drop calucation based on max load of 20 amp @480 volts due the transfomer rating with copper conductors with 60C rating due they run in underground.
However if he (OP) ran with alum conductors now that will change the rating a bit.

Merci,Marc



Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: frenchelectrican] #184556
02/13/09 10:46 AM
02/13/09 10:46 AM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I would not be one that would say the size of the transformer equals the load. Another item missing is the size of the conductors on the primary of the first transformer.

As for the derating of the transformer to 80%, I can't find nay evidence that transformers are to be derated.

What's this about Wye/Delta Wye/Wye. It's a single phase transformer not a 3 phase.

Okay guys/gals, lay it on me smile

Last edited by George Little; 02/13/09 11:00 AM.

George Little
Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: George Little] #184560
02/13/09 12:42 PM
02/13/09 12:42 PM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
Transformers are designed and intended for 100% loading.

Transformers are basically only affected by heat. You can overload any transformer as long as you give it sufficient time to cool down (i.e. 2 hours of 120% may then require 8 hrs at 60%). This is how the utility pole mount transformers are sized.
Other than possible reduced life, an overloaded transformer may have reduced voltage regulation, and the conductor losses go up by the 'square' of the loading (110% load = 121% losses).

Re: Conductor & Protection Question [Re: Yoopersup] #184583
02/13/09 08:14 PM
02/13/09 08:14 PM
Y
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
Michigan
Revisions on Question.
#1 Load is 7.29 amps on secondary of ist 10 KVA transformer.
# 2 Distance is 3500 ft not 1000 ft as stated before.
Is this enough info ?? also state code sections for answers .
Yoopersup

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