ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Any Electricians on here from NZ

Perhaps, the hazard with any network earthing system is objectionable or potential paths thru people in contact with their bonded plumbing, fixtures, equipment casings, etc.

Some remote transients, such as lightning strikes, have exploited these potential differences thru telephone lines, killing a radius of people thru the insulated hand sets.

In the cases above the Australian IT earthing system may be superior.

"Can you elaborate on this? You've got me trying to imagine what kinds of domestic DIY wiring faults could cause problems further back in the system."

While I don't know how common it may be down under; I know up here (it feels strange to say that in Florida) in hurricane country, we have some dodgy generator instalations that could back feed into the network. I know that a residential generator would trip out if it tried to power a large part of the network but, it could be a hazard, to a linesman, in an isolated setting.

When homeowners are allowed to legally DIY and faced only with modest permit fees and difficulty, they will pull permits and submit to an electrical inspection. When the inspector finds unsafe work, he makes the homeowner fix it. Lives are saved.

When homeowners are not allowed to legally DIY, they will still DIY anyway because it's unenforcible and without any oversight. Dangerous installations go uninspected, and lives are lost.

NZ's experience makes perfect sense- outlawing DIY electrical does not stop DIY electrical work, and only serves to make it more dangerous. Don't outlaw it, provide education and oversight, and make it safe.

Good point Ian, I'd forgotten about things feeding back into the supply. Not only generators but misused uninterruptable power supplies or inverters (eg. solar grid connect systems) as well. When I lived in New Guinea portable generators were everywhere due to the unreliability of the power mains. I was told about a rather lethal accessory constructed to connect a generator into the house wiring. It was simply an extension lead with plugs at both ends. You plugged it into any power point in the house and turned off the main switch in order to use the generator. Assuming the house had only a single phase supply (which I think they all did) everything would work as before, only limited by the generator output and power circuit wiring.

Steve, Well said! Here in Australia it appears to be union driven to keep it all closed shop. It seems to be a fear based on electricians losing jobs if Australian homeowners are legally able to do what they've already been doing for years, which of course doesn't make sense.
So, how do non Australian electricians feel about this? Is homeowner DIY a threat to your job?

Well, personally I feel that whether it would be a threat to the job or not is largely irrelevant. It's about whether a person has every right to carry out work on his own house or not. Would anyone accept it being law that he could not paint his own window frames or lay his own carpets, because it might take work away from painters and carpet-fitters?

Fair enough, there might be concerns over safety issues such as back-feeding generators which could be used to justify some sort of regulation and control, but it's a big step to go from that to saying that a homeowner should not be allowed to do the work at all.

No,
I do not feel threatened by people doing their own work, quite the contrary, in fact.

As an inspector, I have been rung up, I don't know how many times by people wanting to know how this or that is done, some people may find that annoying, I don't, I'm more than happy to give advice and have the job done correctly, rather than have them guess and cause someone a bad shock or a fire starting.
Same side of the coin, I have had the odd person say "can you come and have a look at this, it's finished, but I'm not sure it's right".

This is where you make your money, 98% of the time, the work is done correctly and I will test, connect and liven the new work, if I'm happy with the install, it's in my name after all.

One thing that electricians seem to forget is the fact that DIYer's have more time to do a neater job and this is usually the case in most of the installations I have seen, the bad ones are definitely the minority.

I have also had a lot of work from switch-board upgrades and the fitting of RCD's to boards that are out of bounds to a DIYer.

Anyone that thinks work is being taken away from them is paranoid IMO.

Just for further amusement for those from the progressive countries, in some states it's supposedly illegal to even fit a plug to a flexible cord, or even change a jug element. There is a push by some at present to ban the sales of electrical fittings in hardware stores (Bunnings won't be pleased given how popular the electrical section is).
Trumpy's response is exactly how I see it...paranoia abounds!
And Paul, just give it time...it has recently become illegal for a painter to use a ladder; scaffolding now has to be used.
Australia is in the grip of the Nanny State

Reading your comment about jug elements reminds me of those porcelain electric jugs with a bakelite lid and a bare coiled coil element on a china former hanging down inside the water that were very common in Australia when I was there some 20 years ago. I was amazed that a country so fussy about who could do electrical work would allow such a potentially lethal device. I saw one in use once with a broken lid such that it was possible to put your hand inside and touch the live water. Do you still see them there?

I brought one home as a souvenir (sad I know, my daughter brought home a cuddly toy platypus but then she's not an engineer), and also a spare element (still in its packaging) just in case.

This is the sort of thing to which I object. If I'm happy to use a ladder instead of scaffolding, why is that anybody's business but mine? It is not the state's business to try to prevent me from taking a calculated risk so long as I'm not directly endangering anybody else.

I don't know what other Brits might think, but from my persepctive we've grown up with the idea that Australia is a pretty laid-back place where freedom is valued, yet at every turn it seems as though the country has imposed draconian regulations with completely disproportionate penalties. I know the first time I stumbled upon the N.S.W. penalties for failing to use a seat belt, I couldn't believe how severe they were. I thought it was bad enough here, but N.S.W. was just crazy.

Yes that's exactly the kind of jug I was referring to. They are still around (I use one along with a toaster with flip down sides exposing the live element). They disappeared from the shops probably about 20 years ago when small appliance manufacturing ceased in Australia.
I've heard of them being used with a broken or no lid; apparently the office tea lady sat an aluminium tea pot on top of the lidless jug to keep it warm...the bottom of the teapot ended up with two holes as it touched the terminals.
Then there's the story where one was used on DC mains that used to exist in a small part of Sydney. There was a complaint of "funny tasting water". The live heating element was of course causing electrolysis on DC.
As far as I can tell this jug design is unique to Australia (NZ too?) probably as a result to DC mains being so rare here. Needless to say, when I saw cheap elements on sale very cheap I hoarded a few for when the Nanny State bans them.
Paul, I'd be getting awfully off topic to go on about the crazy laws here, but Aussies (not their politicians) are still laid back and aren't happy with the situation.
Have you heard about the internet censorship that all of Australia is going to be subjected to? That's right, just like China. Censorship