ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Spliced Neutral?

Could be, but it's odd that NEC would be anything less than absolutely specific about this it were indeed the gold standard.

How many twists are acceptable? What length? What strength to separate? How to properly insulate? Etc. Back to my example before, if soldered twists are permitted, then I would also be allowed to use a bolt from the junk bin and a couple washers to make a mechanical connection, so long as I soldered it.

If you used a brass bolt, flux and dipped it in the solder pot I am not sure how you would ever get it apart.

Back in the olden days this is what they did.

Steve,
How many twists are acceptable in a wire nut? What length do you strip the wires in a wire nut? How much strength to separate a wire nut?

As stated earlier insulation is a different issue altogether. You're flogging a dead horse.

I imagine that Fig 21 "knotted tap joint" and Fig 13, "rat tailed joint" would frequently be merged to create a rat tail joint with an insulated wire extending beyond the joint (the difference in the way the electrical tape was applied). And that the rat tailed joint looks like the ancestor of the wire nut.

Must have been fun to use a solder pot in tight quarters at a junction box in some hard to get at spot... And not fumble the solder pot...

I'm amazed that this forum is looking for loopholes as opposed to the exact letter of the law. If you went into a box and did a bunch of Fig.21s and Fig.22s, would your AHJ approve it?

The difference is that wire nuts are UL tested and approved, and the instructions printed on the packaging- easy to do, easy to comply with, and easy to check. While the solder joint has has no official approval beyond what the AHJ is willing to allow. One author's instruction on how to make a western union joint isn't the same thing as NFPA endorsing it. As listings cost money, nobody is going to get a DIY soldered splice method UL-approval, so the status quo remains. Only exception I can think of would be official US Government mil-specs and such, which are widely recognized as an acceptable listing authority, and do go into detail on methods like this.

At the end of the day, though... Why? Why even bother? There's no reason to do a solder splice in this day and age. It takes more time, takes a higher level of skill, requires insulation to be applied separately, and is difficult to reverse. There's more reason for NFPA to explicitely ban its use than to allow it. (Thanks for the graphics, btw, it's great to see stuff like that!!)

I doubt there is going to be a resurgence of soldered splices anytime soon. This is just a relic in the code like K&T. I don't think anyone here seriously thinks there is a hazard with a joint that was twisted and soldered coming apart. If anything we are just saying the NFPA did not word 110.14 very well. It must be the same guys who wrote 682.

I learned how to make soldered connections when I was a kid helping my older brother. We used fire heated soldering irons for small joints not solder pots.
A few years ago an electrician did a new house and soldered all the joints, with crimps on the grounds. He said the way he did it was to prepare, i.e. twist and flux, all the joints first and then go through with a small torch and do the whole house.
He had good solder flow and no cold connections. So I approved the job. When I asked why he did it he explained that since nobody else did solder work he could tell if someone had messed with his job, changing or adding to it. Kind of like the plumbers when they used copper pipe and soldered everthing.

Well, I guess from averaging all the input I can rule out having to re-pull the circuit. I removed the insulation and the joint looked like it was well executed...probably by an 'old timer'...it bore a striking resemblance to the western union joint that was posted. Thanks for all the input. Oh, BTW, the circuit used to go to a ceiling hung cord reel. It appears they needed an additional dedicated circuit for a drop cord for a piece of cord connected equipment. The receptacle was replaced with a drop cord with strain relief. the box was supported in the grid with a t-bar hanger.

I'm sure there are lots of old timers who think the world is a worse place when wire nuts replaced solder. Sort of like the people in Chicago and their opinion of Romex.