ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by gfretwell. 10/19/17 01:02 AM
Generator Cable Sizing
by brsele. 10/18/17 07:39 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,405 Are you busy
177,370 Re: Forum
168,975 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 17 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#177564 - 05/07/08 03:32 PM Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 830
Michigan
Instant Hot water heater under the sink Bradford model EFT-28000-4-T-10 208 volt single phase. Draws close to 140 amps.
Theres 45 units that theses are POSSIBLY going to be installed. As far as I see it each one must be rated for condutious duty(X125%)45 x 6075x125% aprox 760 amps ???
Anyone know of any derateing ect in this case?? Seem like a lotta power for Hot water???
Yoopersup


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#177566 - 05/07/08 06:03 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: Yoopersup]  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,262
Fullerton, CA USA

Article 100 defines continuous load as:

"A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more"

That's one heck of a long time to run the sink.


#177569 - 05/07/08 07:23 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: electure]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 830
Michigan
So Hot water Heaters don't need the 125 % either????
422.13 ?????? come into play

Last edited by Yoopersup; 05/07/08 07:25 PM.

#177573 - 05/07/08 08:14 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: Yoopersup]  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,262
Fullerton, CA USA
The water heater is not a storage type. It is an "On Demand" type.

It heats the water when needed, and only when needed.

Here's a PDF
If you scroll down to "Series Three" you'll find it there.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/217b.pdf

Last edited by electure; 05/07/08 08:17 PM. Reason: I forgot to addlink

#177575 - 05/07/08 09:01 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: electure]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 830
Michigan
So where does it deal with Demand type in the NEC?? and whats to stop it from being on for three hrs or more????
(I knew it was demand type Thus the product #)


#177576 - 05/07/08 09:04 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: Yoopersup]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,327
Alaska
Insta hots are not considered as storage units per 422.13.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#177578 - 05/07/08 10:03 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: Yoopersup]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Yooper, I might see a few errors in your thinking.

These are single-phase 'whole house' water heaters. I assume that means that these will each be going in a different residence, and different panels.

Does the load seem high? Sure - that's the price you pay for 'instant' heat.

When you do the load calcs for multiple dwellings, there's a multiplier for your "diversity factor." The effect of this is, whether you use the 125% figure or not in each individual panel, I don't think it will change the final total service needed.

Looks like you need 3 two-pole breakers - and they;ll need to be mounted next to each other, so they can be considered as disconnects 'grouped together.'


#177630 - 05/08/08 07:36 PM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: renosteinke]  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 830
Michigan
I called the Company your right, Three 2 pole 40 amp breakers for each unit . and thats the Minimin size they say would be required to feed a, Shower, Bathroom sink, Kitchen sink combo. Becta there not going in!!!.


#177647 - 05/09/08 06:39 AM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: Yoopersup]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
It's insane how much power it takes to heat water on demand, isn't it? I would have had to upgrade my service to put in an in-use hot water heater for my home. Gas isn't much better- the size gas like you need for even a 1-shower-at-a-time tank line that is obscene, too.


#177655 - 05/09/08 08:53 AM Re: Instant Under counter Hot Water Heaters [Re: SteveFehr]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 916
Chicago Illinois USA
It doesn't really take more energy to heat the water; it's just that you're trying to heat it in seconds instead of minutes. If you think about the gas versions, you're using 30 minutes worth of a gas flame in a few seconds. That means that the flame will look more like a welding torch than a stovetop burner.

My electric one takes (4) 30 Amp 240V circuits, but it doesn't really show up as a noticable amount on my bill; so I'm not using a LOT of energy, I'm just using the same amount very very quickly.


Ghost307

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
Joe Tedesco
Joe Tedesco
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Posts: 2,749
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.027s Queries: 16 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8215 MB (Peak: 1.0064 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-20 08:50:25 UTC