ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
nec 110.3 (B)
by gfretwell - 09/22/21 11:11 PM
Grounding electrodes
by gfretwell - 09/07/21 03:41 PM
Looking For Electricians in the Midlands
by Alex247 - 09/06/21 05:26 AM
New in the Gallery:
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
February, North East Indiana
February, North East Indiana
by timmp, July 25
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 40 guests, and 21 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 22
S
Member
Hello All. I am new to this forum.

Where can I find in the 2005 code where it talks about the requirement for a panel cover? Where does it say that it is required. I can find pull boxes, j boxes, conduit bodies. etc. but I cant find it for panel boards.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
Member
408.38 and 110.3(B),Then see ART. 100,Dead fronts.

This will determine if you need a cover.


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 22
S
Member
Leland,
Here is the question, that is in question. Does 408.38 imply that a panel cover is required where there is live parts accessible to unqualified persons.


Virginia Journeyman Eletrician
NFPA-70E Trained
CFC Universal Certified
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
K
Member
sokoservices,
240.30 [A], requires the overcurrent devices to be protected from physical damage. 110.3[B] could also apply.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
Member
Originally Posted by sokoservices
Leland,
Here is the question, that is in question. Does 408.38 imply that a panel cover is required where there is live parts accessible to unqualified persons.



no. it states: "Panelboards shall be mounted
in cabinets,cutout boxes,or enclosures designed for the purpose and shall be dead front"

100-is deadfront...Why the heck am I transcribing the code for you? Go to the NFPA web site. They have a great version there. see for yourself.The live parts must be protected.

Any way, resi panels, usualy the deadfront is the cover. So whats the "real" question?

BTW, Welcome to the forums, you'll enjoy it here.
Get the book and learn your way around it.We are more than happy to help along the way.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 22
S
Member
Plain and simple.. Where in the code does it say I have to have panel covers on?

For example for boxes:
314.25 Covers and Canopies
In complete installations, each box shall have a cover, faceplate, lampholder, or luminaire (fixture) canopy, except where the installation complies with 410.14 (b)


What reference says for Electrical Panels?
I would say 408.38 then. Dead Front = Cover.

Thank you very much I have a code book. And i know how to use it. Its a matter of interpretation sometimes.


Virginia Journeyman Eletrician
NFPA-70E Trained
CFC Universal Certified
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
Member
Don't take offence, no harm meant.
Your profile was slim so I have no idea of your level in the trade. Sorry.

408 is for panel boards, not boxes.
definition for deadfront says to cover live parts.
so if you have a deadfront your coverd. if not you need a cover to protect from live parts.

So I interpret that to read: put the panel board in an enclosure and install a deadfront to protect the(people) from live parts. Unless the mfgr. says to install a cover aswell,then thats what I do.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
Member
I'm with you Sokoservices. This is yet another of those questions that's hard to answer. As long as I've been in this business, I've always heard the age-old adage that for every requirement in the NEC, there is an exception to that same requirement somewhere. Of course, the acronym "AHJ" is the true wild card that can literally shred your code book into packing material.

Technically, a residential panel today is "dead front" when you think about it if it's full of breakers. OK.......maybe the main lugs might be a questionable area. I can tell you that in my case, I would have to get into my GE panel with a coat hanger to get in trouble. Even with the cover off, all lugs are protected from accidental contact. If I wanted to touch the lugs of my main breaker, I would have to seriously grease my pinkie finger and force it into the hole where the hex wrench is inserted to tighten the lug.

I agree that it's not formally stated, but assumed to be "code" to have a panel cover in place. It's mostly about the manufacturer's approval. Perhaps their panel isn't approved or listed for use without the cover in place. You have to admit that this is the case with plenty of electrical equipment.

I can hang an 8', two light fluorescent strip without the covers. It will still work and there really won't be any additional live parts exposed. Still, this practice is wrong since the fixture assembly isn't complete per the approved listing without the covers in place.

Fear not: There are plenty of folks here who will jump in and try to help further with much better information than mine. Just give it a little bit of time. I learn something new here every day. You will too.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
K
Member
This could probably go on forever, depending on your point of view, but here is my take on this.
I think the reason you don’t find an outright requirement in the NEC itself is because of the way the NEC defines a panelboard in Article 100. Using this component definition, the panel boards themselves would not be required to have a cover, especially when accessible only to qualified persons.
However, the "enclosure" that the panelboard is mounted in is designed in compliance with various standards, such as those in NEMA standards Publication 250 and NEMA standards Publication PB-2006, ANSI/UL 50, UL 589, and I'm sure, probably several others if we dig deep enough.
If I were the inspector on that job, I don’t think it would be a stretch to argue that if panelboard itself is listed and designed to be factory or field mounted in a NEMA rated "enclosure", then it must be listed as an equipment assembly, and that the listing for the equipment assembly with the NEMA rated "enclosure" includes a cover, regardless of whether or not the location is accessible to only qualified persons, since it is not possible to achieve even a NEMA 1 rating without a covered "enclosure".
I would probably site 110.2, 110.3[A], 110.3[B] before even downing my first morning cup of coffee, but that's just me. grin

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
J
JBD Offline
Member
Originally Posted by sokoservices
Hello All. I am new to this forum.

Where can I find in the 2005 code where it talks about the requirement for a panel cover? Where does it say that it is required. I can find pull boxes, j boxes, conduit bodies. etc. but I cant find it for panel boards.


A dead front, cover over the live parts, is part of the panel assembly so a corretly installed panel will include one.

However a cover with a hinged door, over the breakers, is not a requirement of any code or standard unless the enclosure is for special environments, like outdoors.

Last edited by JBD; 01/11/08 05:11 PM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 806
Joined: October 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
timmp 3
Popular Topics(Views)
283,074 Are you busy
216,807 Re: Forum
203,189 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5