ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Using THWN on automotive circuits
by BigB - 03/22/23 09:46 PM
Continuous load
by HotLine1 - 03/08/23 02:11 PM
How's all our Non-US folks doing?
by dsk - 03/08/23 11:56 AM
Old Computers?
by Bill Addiss - 03/04/23 05:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
Burger King crown sillyness
Burger King crown sillyness
by wa2ise, December 11
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 12 guests, and 48 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#173352 01/08/08 07:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
F
Member
Would a ice/snow melting mat require ground fault protection for equipment according to the NEC? According to the pdf below, it actually indicates no ground fault protection should be provided. I just wanted to make sure the instructions are not in conflict with the NEC.
http://www.barcoproducts.com/uploads/store_item_tabs/963B50AEF628490FA6BCCFF8CE85ACBE.pdf

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
K
Member
Frank,
Should be okay if the installation is in accordance with NEC 2008 210.8[A] and 210.8[B] exceptions.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
S
Member
Quote
Note: Depending on the size of the mat being installed, a dedicated circuit without GFCI protection may be required. To disconnect the GFCI protected outlet, call a certified electrician.
At least they have built-in ELCI, right?

They may be referring simply to capacitive losses- a mat of this design is, by nature, going to shunt some current straight to ground by simple capacitance and may nuisance-trip the GFCI.

Every 15A or 20A outlet pretty much anywhere a consumer would be putting a cord-connected mat like this would have GFCI protection as absolutely required by NEC. The only exception would be an inaccessible dedicated outlet specifically for this mat, which is where the sparky comes in. Of course, they don't qualify this, and is joe homeowner REALLY going to pay to have a new dedicated outlet installed, or just defeat the GFCI he's got his extension cord plugged into when it starts tripping?

Last edited by SteveFehr; 01/08/08 08:15 AM.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
F
Member
I forgot to mention that the rating of the electric mat is 240 volts, 10 amps and is for a non-dwelling application.

Last edited by Frank Cinker; 01/08/08 12:38 PM.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
S
Member
This is my read.

From the link:
Quote
Depending on the size of the mat that is being installed, a dedicated circuit without GFCI protection may be required.

Some of the mats are 240 volts due to their large size. The exterior GFCI requirement from 210.8(A) and (B) only applies to 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp circuits. Although it is not required for larger circuits, the property owner needs to decide the level of liability they are willing to take with the mat, especially if the mat is going to be in a public area. I presume these mats are tough but not bullet proof. With shoe cleats, high heals, and just general traffic will eventually damage it. Although it has ELCI protection, it is not the same as GFCI protection. ELCI has a higher tripping point. If a 240 volt mat were to be used, I would consider using a GFCI breaker especially if there is anything conductive within hands reach where the mat was going to be installed and the level of relaibility in that the mat will be properly inspected.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
426.28 requires ground fault protection for the mat, however the built in ELCI provides this protection.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 311
F
Member
Thanks Don. That was the article I was looking for.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Alan Belson
Alan Belson
Mayenne N. France
Posts: 1,803
Joined: March 2005
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 2
triple 2
Popular Topics(Views)
304,960 Are you busy
233,373 Re: Forum
218,105 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5