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#173250 - 01/06/08 11:56 AM AFCI ,loop hole?  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
I put this on another site as well,Thought I'ld try it here too.
Just a twist:

210.12.(B)- Arc fault-For dwelling units, straight forward.

210.18-Guest suites and guest rooms.
If they have permenant cooking (kitchen) they fall under "dwelling unit".210.12.(B). Understood.

Now, forward to 210.60-guest suites,dorms etc.assuming no "kitchen"provisions.
It only states to be in accordance with 210.52.
But 210.52 or 210.60, makes no referance back to 210.12(B).


So, My question is: In a guest suite,dorm rm etc.(210.60) With no "kitchen",
Do these ckts require AFCI?

I see a loop hole. Or is it tunnel vision?


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#173256 - 01/06/08 03:25 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: leland]  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
Appears to me that there is no loop to have a hole in. 210.52 and 210.60 deals with the placement of receptacle outlets and 210.12 deals with the protection of all outlets and the branch circuit conductors. Two different animals IMO.


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#173267 - 01/06/08 06:51 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: Tom]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
You don't need to look that hard ....

Would you like to continue to use 'skinny' breakers? Would you like to never have to install an AFCI? Then simply use 10 amp breakers .... the requirement only applies to 15 and 20 amp circuits.


#173289 - 01/07/08 12:23 AM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: renosteinke]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
Even if the AHJ went along with the 10 thing you would still need more circuits to get the 3va/sqft. Wire, breakers and labor would eat any saving you had from the AFCI savings


Greg Fretwell

#173303 - 01/07/08 07:48 AM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: gfretwell]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,208
Chesapeake, VA
We just need to get manufacturers to make 19-amp breakers. Problem solved!


#173327 - 01/07/08 07:42 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: SteveFehr]  
electure  Offline


Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,260
Fullerton, CA USA
What kind of receptacle do you propose to put on the 10 Amp or 19 Amp breaker?


#173339 - 01/07/08 10:46 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: electure]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 872
Do they even make a 10A twin breaker? Do not think useing them is such a hot idea,myself (10A breakers)


#173340 - 01/07/08 11:02 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: NORCAL]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
I guess my point was...

That bedrooms are the reasoning behind this rediculouse AFCI crap to begin with.

But in rooms with no other purpose except to sleep, not required.
Does this not seem strange?


#173409 - 01/09/08 12:03 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: leland]  
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
The whole thing seems strange, IMHO. We've been putting AFCI breakers on REC circuits to bedrooms for years.

Is arcing really a plague that required this type of regulation? I've been in this business for 12+ years, in all facets of comercial, residential, and industrial. I haven't seen a need for such a code change. Maybe I've been lucky and limited in my experience.


#173430 - 01/09/08 05:52 PM Re: AFCI ,loop hole? [Re: Zapped]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
No AFCI required for dorm rooms?
What happens when Biff captures the rival football teams mascot goat, hides him in the dorm and the goat partially chews through one of the half dozen six-foot 18/2 extension cords connected together that run under the braided rug to the other end of the dorm room where the lava lamp, stereo, TV, DVD player, Mac notebook and mini-frig are plugged in? grin


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