ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
AreMetal Ladders Ever OK For Electrical Work?
by jwes2699. 01/21/18 05:58 PM
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs
by sparky. 01/20/18 05:09 PM
MRI LED lights dimmer control replacement - wow!
by Potseal. 01/19/18 08:52 PM
Video: Inventor of the GFCI self-testing shocks
by Bill Addiss. 01/17/18 11:11 PM
FPE in Germany
by HotLine1. 01/17/18 07:07 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (jwes2699), 9 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
422.52 NEW section #172808
12/27/07 11:42 AM
12/27/07 11:42 AM
A
Alan Nadon  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
In the 2008 NEC there is a new section 422.52. It requires GFI protection for Fountains. Drinking Fountains.
I thought this was resolved several years ago when the definition of Fountain in Article 680 clearified that it did not apply to drinking fointains.
This was the result of some inspectors requiring GFI protection at Drinking Fountains . Unless people were wading in the fountain, GFI was considered unneeded. smile
Now they stick it in 422. One person reportedly died from a drinking fountain incident, because the ground prong was cut off the cord !
It is becoming an embarassment to enforce the Code with a straight face.


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Alan Nadon] #172822
12/27/07 04:55 PM
12/27/07 04:55 PM
A
ausador  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Central Florida
Not having the read the new article I am limited in my ability to comment upon it intelligently.

That being said however....what is wrong with requireing GFCI protection for drinking fountains? I have been at this a while and can remember three specific instances where I did calls that involved energized fountains. While no one died or was seriously harmed, in principle they could have been.

Sort of reminds me of the resturant kitchens I have been to where they warned you that the cooler/freezer would shock you if you touched it while grounded. Yet they continued to use them and only mentioned it as ancillary to the reason I was there on a call.

Chilled water drinking fountains contain both a compressor and a condensor, a condensate tray often with electric heat, and other sometimes electrically powered controls. They also are subject to vibration because of the compressor which could lead to cable wear and fatigue at terminals.

Once upon a time when all drinking fountains were connected rigidly to both a metallic supply and metallic drain both of which were grounded these concerns had no merit. Any fault within the appliance would constitute a ground fault sufficent to trip the branch circuit breaker. This is no longer true however.

You may continue to enforce the code with a straight face, drinking fountains are exactly the type of appliance that can benefit from GFCI protection.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: ausador] #172826
12/27/07 06:10 PM
12/27/07 06:10 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I can't see this requirement as a bad thing.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: iwire] #172830
12/27/07 07:39 PM
12/27/07 07:39 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Thats fine. GFCI, within 6' of a sink. But nothing within 6" of your face?

I think it is over due.

Tamper resistant and AFCI.... I won't go there now.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland] #172839
12/27/07 09:15 PM
12/27/07 09:15 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,918
Brick, NJ USA
Alan:
I have to concur with all of the above. GFI protection cannot cause any 'problems', and the cost factor is negligable.

Now, how about one of the MFG coming out with a single receptacle GFI device? 15 & 20 amp...and make the $$ comparable with a faceless/deadfront OR a decent duplex GFI


John
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: HotLine1] #172840
12/27/07 09:29 PM
12/27/07 09:29 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Breaker for this application I think is best.
No covers to remove etc.But a single would be nice.

Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland] #172929
12/30/07 09:41 AM
12/30/07 09:41 AM
Obsaleet  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Pa
I think I will submit a proposal to use tamper resistant GFCI receptacles every where and make it easy for everyone. No exception for GFCI breakers(lol)
Ob


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Obsaleet] #172934
12/30/07 12:25 PM
12/30/07 12:25 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Funny ... sometimes I'm tempted to propose that we all return to the 1966 edition, without ammendments ....


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Admin
Admin
NY, USA
Posts: 3,481
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 20
sparky 16
Potseal 15
Popular Topics(Views)
243,586 Are you busy
180,381 Re: Forum
170,859 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9945 MB (Peak: 1.1543 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-22 00:36:26 UTC