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#172329 - 12/17/07 11:49 PM Craigslist competition?  
Jim M  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 457
Chestertown, MD, USA
How about charging what the other guys are charging? Oh yeah, he is unlicensed.

Reliable Electrical handyman skilled in all of the following:

-Lighting (Installation, Design and Layout)
-Kitchen Lighting
-Undercabinet Lighting
-New Fixtures (Recessed Cans/ Pendant/ Ceiling Fans/ Sconces, etc...)
-Appliance Electrical Hook-up (Dishwashers, Garbage Disposal, etc...)
-Outdoor lights (Motion Sensored)
-New Outlets or Switches
-Timers/ Light-Sensitive Switches
-Running Cable (Standard 12/2-12/3-etc.../ Cat5e/Cat6/ Coaxial/ Telephone)
-Small Networks
-Vonage, (VOIP) Setup and configuration to existing home phone lines
-Troubleshooting
-And much more....

I can also do other home improvement projects such as painting, plumbing, flooring, hardwood refinishing, and other things of this sort...just ask!

If you're looking for something that is not mentioned above, e-mail or call me and I can probably do it...

Rate: $28/hr OR by project-(one set price)

E-mail: Reply to the above link


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#172330 - 12/18/07 12:12 AM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: Jim M]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Gotta love it ! AAAARRRRGGGG!!!!

I actualy replied to one, They claimed to be laid off. My advice was to charge the going rates and get insured.

In MA. The law states that on ANY advertisment, ( CO.check,Bussiness card,truck, add etc.) You MUST list your lic. #.

I look, And I call. For this very reason. We also have a very handy state web site for checking licenses, and status. By name or number.

Some think I'm a Pri*k, But just trying to feed the family and add to my toy collection.

Last edited by leland; 12/18/07 12:14 AM. Reason: Replied

#172331 - 12/18/07 12:14 AM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: leland]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
I am not too crazy with the Craiglist because what it will do is show many HO what thier rates [ the trunkslammers ] and not our rates becuase many HO think we do rip them off.,,

Well they dont relized that we spend alot of time with traning with the latest code etc and we do make honest buck for the family to support.

Merci, Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#172340 - 12/18/07 08:52 AM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: frenchelectrican]  
Gmack  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 29
Michigan
Its not just the HO.

Then there is the fat EI who looks the other way. Lazy and not interested in enforcing "law".

UNTIL! "we" dont file a permit.

In my state it is against the law for anyone other than a liscensed electrician to perform "work". Said law espouses all manner of regulations and penalties etc.

The "trunkslammers" are doing just fine.

Lawmakers.

Last edited by Gmack; 12/18/07 08:53 AM.

#172448 - 12/19/07 01:49 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: Jim M]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I feel your pain.
Many legitimate businesses like mine, also utilize Craigslist as another advertising medium.
The home or building owner that uses those lowbrow operators you speak of do so because they can, and are only taking one thing into account, “how much is this going to cost me”. Unfortunately, the real answer to that question sometimes comes much later on as a visit from the local fire department and their insurance adjuster.
Many homeowners in my state also don’t realize that if they hire a so called “contractor” without verifying that he has the proper liability insurance for the types of work he is performing and that person gets injured while working on their property, they are the ones who’s are liable for his injuries and any damages.
In addition, no insurance company I know of will issue commercial liability insurance for any type of electrical work without that person being duly licensed by the state.
That includes the Class-D, low-voltage installers license, in MA, which is not adequate for anything but fire and burglar alarm wiring.
I mention this because some handymen are presenting the Class-D as credentials that they are a licensed electrician in their Craigslist ads and on their websites.


I my opinion, and from my personal experience, the real problems in the electrical industry starts at the state and local government levels with the lack of uniform regulation, licensing and enforcement, and ends at the manufactures and supplier level.
I can’t say that I blame them, but manufacturers and suppliers are and have been very happy and willing to cash in on the huge DIY market and hence have flooded the field with cheap readily available electrical supplies for one and all. This easy access makes it almost impossible for an honest contractor to research suitability, spec, price, purchase, supply and install materials at anything above cost. At least in the residential and light commercial markets.
That leaves the labor rate as the only variable. Since overhead determines your labor rate, you can only work for so little before you are working for nothing.
This is where the fleabags flourish because no schooling, experience, licenses, proper insurances, inventory, ethics, etc, makes for some awesomely low overhead.
The problem of dangerous DIY’ers, handyhacks and unlicensed, uninsured, no-permit, slip-shod fly-by nighters exist in every trade. If they are unable to get materials, they are out of business. Even licensed lowball, cut throat bidders and high priced gougers would put themselves out of business because there would be no room for them with every one else competing and operating within an average median priced playing field.
I detest government regulation and wish we could all just rely on our own honesty and integrity, but you as you can see, you can’t do it alone. You need the uniform backing of state and local government, manufactures and suppliers.


JMHO


#172461 - 12/19/07 09:21 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: KJay]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Actually, the problem is the fault of ... you and me, and those around us.

A friend recently urged me, in the strongest of terms, to let their mechanic work on my truck. He was good, and cheap, and came to you. He was cheap, because, he didn't have the expenses of a shop and real business would have.

How many of us have hired such 'trunk slammers' for ourselves? Did we really expect these guys to 'respect' our trade?

Moreover ... how many contractors keep the details of running their business secret? Do your employees KNOW where the $100/hr shop rate really goes? Or, is the crew always hearing about the weekend you spent at your cabin on the lake? No wonder they think all that money goes into your pocket.

It doesn't help that, many times, licensing laws are used to restrict competition. Many times, the folks running the 'established company' would never be allowed to open the business, were they to try to start it today.

Things like "Craigs' List" are the only check we have on the governmental tendency to strangle everything .... or the 'ins' twisting the rules to favor themselves.


#172462 - 12/19/07 09:27 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: KJay]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
----I my opinion, and from my personal experience, the real problems in the electrical industry starts at the state and local government levels with the lack of uniform regulation, licensing and enforcement, and ends at the manufactures and supplier level.---

Very true. Some trades have that cooperation. HVAC.
Try to buy some gas.
I tried to buy a pad for my pool heat pump, I was asked for my license. Produced my Elec ticket and the clerk responded.." Well guess you can't hurt yourself with just a pad".. Any thing more and I would have needed my refrigerant lic.

So yes, I agree with limited supply in states requireing trade licenses.


#172463 - 12/19/07 09:33 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: renosteinke]  
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Originally Posted by renosteinke
Actually, the problem is the fault of ... you and me, and those around us.

A friend recently urged me, in the strongest of terms, to let their mechanic work on my truck. He was good, and cheap, and came to you. He was cheap, because, he didn't have the expenses of a shop and real business would have.

How many of us have hired such 'trunk slammers' for ourselves? Did we really expect these guys to 'respect' our trade?

Moreover ... how many contractors keep the details of running their business secret? Do your employees KNOW where the $100/hr shop rate really goes? Or, is the crew always hearing about the weekend you spent at your cabin on the lake? No wonder they think all that money goes into your pocket.

It doesn't help that, many times, licensing laws are used to restrict competition. Many times, the folks running the 'established company' would never be allowed to open the business, were they to try to start it today.

Things like "Craigs' List" are the only check we have on the governmental tendency to strangle everything .... or the 'ins' twisting the rules to favor themselves.


Yup, nugh said! We need a long hard look at ourselfs.


#172465 - 12/19/07 10:38 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: leland]  
BryanInBalt  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 47
Baltimore
A few years ago I was on a long road trip interrupted by short term gigs to replenish my wallet. In most instances I was able to get hired by an established EC who (after the first day of checking me out) was happy to have had me. In too many instances tho (especially out west) I was not able to apply my trade because of insane laws that restricted me from legally using my skills, experience and knowledge.

One example was Bozeman Montana where I wanted to spend a couple months in mid summer (best trout fishing I've ever seen). Long story short I had 5 SOLID and GOOD paying job offers for before noon but! because I didn't have a MT issued Jcard I couldn't legally go to work.(WA at least allowed you to register with the board to at an A card)

hello Craigslist. hello HD parking lot.
(And met an EC there who set me up for some good work in washington)



Design-Build isn't supposed to mean design *as* you build.

#172512 - 12/20/07 02:52 PM Re: Craigslist competition? [Re: BryanInBalt]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
[/quote]
"I was not able to apply my trade because of insane laws that restricted me from legally using my skills, experience and knowledge."


Been there, seen it, done that.

Probably about 17 years ago, I had a similar situation trying to find work after moving to MD. I was a licensed Master electrician in my home state at the time, which had much tighter state-wide licensing laws and requirements, unlike MD’s county by county licensing system. I had to retest just to get my EPA/Montgomery County J-Card, which was only reciprocal with the surrounding southern counties, D.C. and N.Virginia, but basically useless in Baltimore, which had their own city license.
As I said in my previous post, I detest regulation, but I realize that a certain amount of it is necessary. It also needs to be applied properly. Individual states seem to concentrate their efforts on making it more difficult for others of the same profession to interact, while forgetting that it is the fleabags that don’t follow rules, obey laws and have absolutely no concern for providing reinforcement and validity to what legislation lawmakers do pass for enhancing the trade we work in and protecting consumers.
Moreover, what is the mentality behind some states allowing a property owner with limited or even no experience to pull a permit, install their own electrical service and wire their own building, rough to finish, but not allow them do their own plumbing?
At the same time, an experienced licensed electrician from another state cannot pull permit or perform any electrical work legally without that states license. Even though we all follow the NEC, no matter what edition. Who is more qualified in this instance? Hogwash!

On another note, other trades enjoy a greater level of security and prosperity, almost nationally, by reducing access of materials through industry wide cooperation with suppliers. Requiring credentials and using commercial accounts almost exclusively, greatly helps filter out unqualified, unlicensed, uncertified individuals such as DIY homeowners, handymen, fly-by-nighters, and moonlighting helpers. All of these undermine professionalism in your trade, increase hazards to consumers and pick your pockets. Some schleps will always get through, but as a whole, this system seems to work pretty well.
The electrical trade as a whole is way too fragmented and has never quite been able to grasp this concept. Unfortunately, the genie has been out of the bottle for a long time and it’s unlikely to go back in willingly.
frown




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