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Fire Alarm Cable Support.... #172270
12/17/07 08:01 AM
12/17/07 08:01 AM
E
Elec N Spec  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 33
Rochester Hills, MI USA
Article 760.8 requires that fire alarm cables and conductors be supported by the building structure. I would like to hear what others think regarding supporting the fire alarm cables from the suspended ceiling support wires. Tony

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: Elec N Spec] #172278
12/17/07 11:11 AM
12/17/07 11:11 AM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
Alaska
Ceiling support wire is not to support nothing but the ceiling


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: sparkyinak] #172281
12/17/07 01:09 PM
12/17/07 01:09 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,493
Michigan USA
Guys- take a look at NFPA 70 - '05 Edition and check at 300.11(A)(1) & (2) and note that in some cases wiring methods are permitted to be supported by the same support wires that support the ceiling. Now- depending on your definition of "exposed" you might be able to support the cable via the support wires for the ceiling. It would be handy especially if the structural ceiling was 10 feet above the suspended one. I for one would feel comfortable if the suspended ceiling did not have removable panels. If the suspended ceiling had removable panels, my understanding is that this is considered exposed wiring and subject to physical damage due to "normal building use" 760.8. So Tony, "Write it"

Last edited by George Little; 12/17/07 01:11 PM.

George Little
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: George Little] #172287
12/17/07 04:58 PM
12/17/07 04:58 PM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
Alaska
The original posts asked if the support wires for a hanging ceiling can support the FA cable. If the hanger wires are there to support the ceiling the those wires can not be used. A drop ceiling is not considered part of a building structure.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: sparkyinak] #172317
12/17/07 10:00 PM
12/17/07 10:00 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
Fl IAEI had a long discussion about this around 1996? when this first showed up in the code. They decided if there were extra wires, beyond what held the ceiling up, you could use these supplemental wires for support. Then the question became, which wires were holding up the ceiling and which ones were extras for wiring method support. They decided common sense would prevail and you should be able to spot the pattern the ceiling guys used and identify the extras.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: sparkyinak] #172319
12/17/07 10:04 PM
12/17/07 10:04 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
No, The way I read it.
760.8 refers to surface applications and 300.4.D. Ok.
Now go to 300.11 (A) (1) &(2).
There's the answer.

Last edited by leland; 12/17/07 10:06 PM.
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: leland] #172320
12/17/07 10:07 PM
12/17/07 10:07 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Additionaly, you must determine what type of wire/conduit you are useing

Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: leland] #172334
12/17/07 11:43 PM
12/17/07 11:43 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,493
Michigan USA
The more I read this thread, the more I learn about fire alarm wiring above drop ceilings. I've decided that it can be there and would not have to be fastened directly to the structural ceiling but could be on hangers or similar fittings and when this is the case, one would have to look at 300.11 (A) (1) & (2). I said this previously and was echoed by Leland but there is an additional concern in 760.7 that need to be heeded.


George Little
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: George Little] #172415
12/19/07 07:14 AM
12/19/07 07:14 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
When working in the Chapter 7 Articles you have to look for this statement:
Quote
760.3 Other Articles
Circuits and equipment shall comply with 760.3(A) through 760.3(F). Only those sections of Article 300 referenced in this article shall apply to fire alarm systems.

In this case 300.11 is referenced in 760.25 and 760.52(B)so the 300.11 does apply.
As far as 760.7 it doesn't say what the CMP intended. They were trying to prevent you from just laying the cable on top of the ceiling, but the section wording does not really do that. The wording only says you can't prevent the removal of the ceiling tiles. A few fire alarm or any other type of cables would not prevent the removal of the tile. The section should just say that the cables cannot be supported by the tiles or the grid, but it doesn't so now it is a subjective rule as to how many cables can be placed on the tile before it becomes impossible to remove.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Fire Alarm Cable Support.... [Re: resqcapt19] #172416
12/19/07 08:03 AM
12/19/07 08:03 AM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,493
Michigan USA
Thanks Don, I missed that and it's a good solid reference to wiring above drop ceilings.

Lets have a good 2008. Things have been kinda rough here in Michigan and we need to turn it around.


George Little

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