ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
Casino Wiring methods
by HotLine1. 12/09/17 10:44 AM
Ground wire Size to water Line.
by HotLine1. 12/05/17 12:11 PM
Flexible conduit to an outside Spa
by gfretwell. 12/05/17 12:28 AM
2017 NEC Changes
by luckyshadow. 12/04/17 06:08 PM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by Vulsion. 11/30/17 06:37 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
242,991 Are you busy
179,385 Re: Forum
170,352 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 14 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#172068 - 12/11/07 10:11 PM panel in a remodel  
dilydalyer  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 59
This may be in the wrong forum.I have no adapter to send pics off phone'but has anyone heard of electrical eq named"electric center"?Has a red bulldog on front of panel and "push-button" breakers....

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#172070 - 12/11/07 10:19 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: dilydalyer]  
KJay  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
Sounds like the old ITE Bulldog. You can still buy breakers for replacement use but they are now very expensive.

Last edited by KJay; 12/11/07 10:20 PM.

#172076 - 12/11/07 11:54 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: KJay]  
ausador  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Central Florida
That is a bulldog panel....later to be known as a ITE "pushmatic" panel.....

ITE electric still manufactures these breakers (at least in the smaller sizes that U.L. still allows)

An ITE P120 is a singlr pole 20 amp, An ITE P220 is a double pole 20 amp...etc, etc, etc.....

Last I heard U.L. had pulled the listing for all the larger amperage breakers and they were no longer allowed to be manufactured. I think I had heard anything bigger than a 2 pole 50amp is no longer obtainable...but thats heresay and I'm probably wrong...

They are still availible from some breaker remanufactureing/reconditioning outlets but as KJay said the costs for those are downright frightening and besides where is the manufacturers backing in case the place burns and you get named in a lawsuit? Is a little piddling company like miami breaker that resells these things going to help?....I don't think so....

For the most part when confronted with a pushmatic nowadays I automatically start thinking service change/ $0.02......

#172102 - 12/13/07 12:34 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: ausador]  
KJay  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
Hi ausador,
I don’t want to get off track from the OP’s subject, but you bring up a very good point. There is kind of the same situation with Federal Pacific [Stablok] and “piddling” companies manufacturing these retrofit circuit breakers and other brands as well, such as Zinsco. I have seen spanking new FSP breakers made in China from a company named Unique Circuit Breaker. They are only tagged with an ETL [Electrical Testing Laboratory] listing and not a UL listing.
I can understand someone not wanting to replace the entire panel just because they may have a bad breaker or maybe want to add another circuit for an air conditioner, but I’m wondering how they can get away with marketing these breakers like this and what the implications would be to an unsuspecting contractor or consumer who installs one of these thinking they are OEM and have a UL listing.

Not sure, but I think a company named American Circuit Breaker owns the patent and tooling for the FSP line of breakers and has an actual UL listing. shocked
At the same time I suppose I should also go into the IAEI and CPSC final decision on FSP [Stablok] and the hysteria, whether real or imagined, around these cb’s, but that really gets off track of this persons post. It might also reopen some old wounds. Maybe in another post.

#172104 - 12/13/07 02:28 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: KJay]  
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,877
Brick, NJ USA
American Circuit Breaker is the legitimate mfg of 'Stablok' breakers for FPE panels. I have not seen any 'other' brands.

Yes, ITE/Bulldog are still around, costs depends on who has them, and how many distributors are in the chain. Like anything else, volume means lower costs, and 'desparation requires a premium price.

As to ETL, most jurisdictions recognize it; it's a testing org like UL.


#172106 - 12/13/07 08:08 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: HotLine1]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,328
Not to dilute the OP even more, ETL is a ligit testing facilty. It the breaker has a ETL stamp, it must also have the little US stamp right next to it. Look for a new string on product certification. I will try and get it out tonight. I did s little research on this topic a couple of years back and It was an eye opener

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#172113 - 12/13/07 09:36 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: sparkyinak]  
ausador  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Central Florida
Just to confirm KJay's post, I too have seen "unique" brand circuit breakers that are clones of both "FPE stablock" and also of "Zinsco" breakers. They are sold in the DIY big box chain stores.

The really interesting part of this is when you go to the counter and ask for the catalog of the old "zinsco" type breakers that aren't stocked on the shelf. Apparently I can order all those breakers that U.L. has denied a listing to for the last ten years or so. These will be E.T.L test lab listed according to the catalog.

Uhhh...didn't U.L. pull the listing because of the fact that they coundn't carry the amperage for long periods of time and resulted in the crummy slip fitting to the buss bar burning up? Sigh....U.L. pulls thier listing so someone else steps forward and offers one? Where is that going to end?....some states already recognize 3 different listings and several other companies are clamoring to try to get in on the gravy train....

Admittedly U.L. sometimes ticks me off with some of thier light fixture listings....but all-in-all I think they do thier job well. Ten years from now will I have to carry around a list of the recognized testing agencies in my state?....Hmmm..lets see...U.L....nope...E.T.L....nope...C.S.A....nope....I.C.C..nope...T.U.V....nope...E.T.M.....nope...Ohhh here it is, it's listed by L.B.I. (Shudder)

#172114 - 12/13/07 09:54 PM Re: panel in a remodel [Re: ausador]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Well, this thread has gone a bit off on a tangent... laugh

UL is quite adamant ... neither FPE nor Zinsco ever 'lost' their listing. Both firms continued to make listed products to the day they closed their doors. As far as UL is concerned, they closed their doors simply for business (or lack thereof) reasons.

Indeed, the parent of Square D continues to make, and sell, FPE breakers in Canada.

UL decided, some years back, to go the "ISO9000" route. As a consequence of this act, they inadvertently opened up their market to competing testing firms. ETL is one such firm.

Whether a firm chooses to do business with UL is their decision, and may be influenced by many factors.

Whatever a UL listing may mean ... NEVER confuse it with being any sort of stamp of quality. Some of the most absurd products have managed to pass the appropriate tests. The tests are for 'safety,' not for effectiveness, or quality.

Member Spotlight
Posts: 421
Joined: September 2005
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.7976 MB (Peak: 0.9588 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-11 07:49:18 UTC